Want to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

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Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

I'm having difficulties finding a local supplier that carries BB that's larger that 5' x 5'. Am I SOL? I called a few distro and they don't seem to carry it. If anybody in Toronto/GTA knows where to get it, please let me know...I watched a youtube on the Saburo and I'm liking what it can do :D
 
Re: Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

kin0kin said:
I'm having difficulties finding a local supplier that carries BB that's larger that 5' x 5'. Am I SOL? I called a few distro and they don't seem to carry it. If anybody in Toronto/GTA knows where to get it, please let me know...I watched a youtube on the Saburo and I'm liking what it can do :D


Well, since the side wall panels on these designs aren't carrying a lot of vertical stress load, you could always laminate your own panels from 2 staggered layers of thinner material.

But by the time you factor the material and time factor to do that properly, the easier answer would be to source 4x8 sheets of a product that is locally referred to as "europly" - a brand name that is often taken as a generic is Appleply. The last time I priced some, the price was more than double that of the shop-grade baltic birch, and frankly since I have enough projects to keep me occupied, that helped the decision making quite a bit. :angel:

I haven't sketched out a full cut list for the Saburos, but you would need 2 full sheets for the side panels, and possibly into a third (could be cheaper BB) to complete the internal parts
 
hmm if i had to go that route I'd probably do 1/2" mdf for the exterior and line the inside with 1/4" ply. Ideally I'd like to use a full sheet of ply as I plan to stain it. I'm still contemplating building the mikasa vs saburos. There's also the fonken that I need to build ;)
 
Ideally I'd like to use a full sheet of ply as I plan to stain it.

Were you going to edge-band the plywood with some solid wood? If so, you could incorporate a strip of the solid into your design. I'm thinking that you'd have the outer layer's joint about the middle; in between the upper and lower halves you would incorporate an accent stripe of solid wood the same thickness as the outer layer of plywood.. It would probably look good if you made it somewhat diagonal.

Just a thought, but could be nice.

Regards.

Aengus
 
Re: Re: Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

MJL21193 said:



Hi,
Did you try Central Fairbanks ?
I know they have BB in 5' x 5'.


You're a life saver. These guys carry 4x8 BB and they can cut them to spec! bout 68 bucks per sheet for 3/4".

I'm considering going with a 45 mitre joint and expose the edges. I'd think the internal pieces would be strong enough to hold the sides together?
 
Re: Re: Re: Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

kin0kin said:



You're a life saver. These guys carry 4x8 BB and they can cut them to spec! bout 68 bucks per sheet for 3/4".

I'm considering going with a 45 mitre joint and expose the edges. I'd think the internal pieces would be strong enough to hold the sides together?

I'd be inclined to leave that for a simpler project ( i.e. one without all the internal parts) - deadly accuracy of cutting is imperative, and assembly would be much more complicated
 
I guess that's reason why most of the designs have a fixed width dimension?

Also, I was looking at the Saburo and Sachiko's dimension. They seem to be pretty much identical besides the baffle, and spacing in between the two horns. I'm assuming that dimension for the internal pieces dimension are exactly identical (again, besides the width).
 
kin0kin said:
I guess that's reason why most of the designs have a fixed width dimension?



Well, yes, with all the internal parts of the same width, the cutting plan and assembly is much easier - and while it's not fair to underestimate the joinery skills of any potential builder, the manner in which your question was posed suggested a degree of trepidation.

Mitre folding a simple rectangular box with a limited number of internal panels isn't all that difficult, however these designs are a bit more complicated than that, and it would be unfortunate to get frustrated by getting in too deep in terms of assembly skills.







Also, I was looking at the saburo and sachinko's dimension. They seem to be pretty much identical besides the baffle, and spacing in between the two horns. I'm assuming that dimension for the internal pieces dimension are exactly identical (again, besides the width).

Actually, there is a difference of 7mm in the height of driver chamber, throat aperture, horn mouth spacing and overall height.

Situated between the 2 designs, is the Hiro - for FE166E/SR and FE168E Sigma.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

kin0kin said:



You're a life saver. These guys carry 4x8 BB and they can cut them to spec! bout 68 bucks per sheet for 3/4".

I'm considering going with a 45 mitre joint and expose the edges. I'd think the internal pieces would be strong enough to hold the sides together?

Thanks from me as well! Does Central Fairbank charge for cutting or is that included in the price?

I know they're cheaper than Home Depot on many items, but did you confirm with them that it's BB and not just Baltic Ply, because that's about what a 3/4" sheet of ply will cost you at HD.
 
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kin0kin said:
Also, I was looking at the Saburo and Sachiko's dimension. They seem to be pretty much identical besides the baffle, and spacing in between the two horns. I'm assuming that dimension for the internal pieces dimension are exactly identical (again, besides the width).

The only difference in the side cross-section of Saburo & Sachiko is a reduction in the common rearward path is a 1/4" shorter (2.25 vrs 2.5") in Saburo (and all the fallout that Chris pointed out from that reduction -- Scott still works in inches, and i haven't yet taken the dimensions out to a 1/10 mm (as requested by Chris))

dave
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ant to build Mikasa/Saburo but.....

twitchie said:


I know they're cheaper than Home Depot on many items, but did you confirm with them that it's BB and not just Baltic Ply, because that's about what a 3/4" sheet of ply will cost you at HD.

I found that the 'birch plywood' from HD was nothing like 'Baltic Birch'- lots of voids, and fewer laminations/plys as well. So I recommend you do as twitchie suggests and double-check- a void can ruin your whole day of woodworking if it pops up at the wrong spot. I have even heard stories about hidden voids buzzing in finished boxes.

John
 
Also, don't forget that with the number of folds and corners in the Nagaoka style designs, a difference of material thickness from the nominal 3/4" in which the Saburo etc are drawn, to 18mm that you'll likely encounter with metric dimensioned sheets (i.e. Russian / Baltic Birch for sure, and others as well) can cause some big surprises if you use the cut list dimensions.

surprises, as in some parts are too short, and some critical clearances the wrong size - not the best for a BLH




It's a pain in the a$$ to have to check and modify drawings to accommodate differences in material thickness, but far less frustrating than the alternative.

measure once - cut twice

been there, worn out the T-shirt
 
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chrisb said:
Also, don't forget that with the number of folds and corners in the Nagaoka style designs, a difference of material thickness from the nominal 3/4" in which the Saburo etc are drawn, to 18mm that you'll likely encounter with metric dimensioned sheets (i.e. Russian / Baltic Birch for sure, and others as well) can cause some big surprises if you use the cut list dimensions.

surprises, as in some parts are too short, and some critical clearances the wrong size - not the best for a BLH

The 1 mm extra on the horn path height won't make a difference sonically, but this does point out that the thickness of each piece of material you buy should be checked. Chris has told stories of varying thickness of material sold as the same thickness... we also had a lift of BB where the thickness of each panel wasn't consistent.

The message being measure all way round your panel material and then figure detailed dimensions.

dave
 
Scottmoose said:
I'm afraid my stubborn clininging to the Imperial system causes problems... sorry. I'll try to go metric in future -I hate it with a deep and abiding passion, but I'll have a go. :sad:


just 'cause it was invented by the French? :angel:

I adjusted to it late in life myself, due to working in a commercial shop that happens to use German and Italian CNC woodworking machinery, both of which only understand the metric system


and it's just as easy to fudge up in metric as any other system

I thought you said cm, not mm .....
 
I've posted this before, but if I have metric plans, I use a metric ruler and if I have English plans, I use an English ruler. I could care less what dimensions the plans use. Because I deal mostly with North Americans, I publish plans in English. It seems that we colonials find inches/feet/yards/miles more logical than mm/cm/m/km(!).

Bob
 
My point was that a novice builder might get more than a bit confused when some parts cut to a list based on thicker material don't fit.

Including the stepped mouth deflectors, the Saburo/Hiro/Sachiko series have 34 parts per enclosure, and there are 11 90 degree corners per path.

It wouldn't take long for a difference of material thickness of only 1mm (.04") to compound to a more significant number - significant in that parts cut exactly as per the list will be too short to retain the clearances around all the folds.

The Saburo is a particularly tight cutting pattern - if using a single slanted deflector panel, you can yield one enclosure from a 4x8ft sheet - with not much left over to recut more than a couple of the shortest parts.
 
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