Help with building first bookshelf speakers

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benro2

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Joined 2008
Hi guys,

I'm completely new to building speakers, and haven't really done any woodworking at all, but I'm very interested in building some bookshelf speakers for AUS $300 or less.

My reasons for this project are:

1. To have fun
2. To learn more about speakers and how to build them

Here are the characteristics and main uses for the speakers:

1. They will be used as nearfield monitors (next to an LCD display - so do they need to be shielded?) and so must be fairly compact too. They will be sitting on my computer desk.

2. I will be mixing music with them so they need to be as accurate as possible. I'd also like them to have a bit of bass, but not be bass heavy. I don't want to have to use a sub.

3. They will mostly be used for mixing/listening to metal and rock music, so punchiness and responsiveness is a must. I'm not sure what sort of "curve" they should have for this sort of music, so can someone fill me in on what I should be looking for here?

4. They won't be played (much) at high volumes so they must also sound good at low volumes too.

5. I'd ideally like to be able to walk into somewhere like Jaycar and pick up the drivers. I've been looking at these as possible candidates: the Jaycar CS2154 6.5" High-End Woofer/Mid and the Jaycar CT2032 Response Ribbon Tweeter. However, I know nothing about box design, so I presume the best way would be to find someone who has used these drivers before and written a review on the results? Or, if anyone has any other suitable drivers that will suit my needs that are in my price range?

I'm not too worried about looks, but if I had a choice, I wouldn't mind using something like those yellow Jaycar drivers with a matte black finish :)

I'd appreciate anyone's input regarding design help (ie: should I design the box myself or use a "tried and tested" combination of drivers and boxes) and with the actual construction. Something incredibly simple using cheap(er) materials would be the way to go as I have next to no woodworking skills, but can get help if I need it. I have a basic tool set but I *think* I can find someone with whatever tools I may need.

Thanks in advance for the help!
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
5. I'd ideally like to be able to walk into somewhere like Jaycar and pick up the drivers. I've been looking at these as possible candidates: the Jaycar CS2154 6.5" High-End Woofer/Mid and the Jaycar CT2032 Response Ribbon Tweeter. However, I know nothing about box design, so I presume the best way would be to find someone who has used these drivers before and written a review on the results? Or, if anyone has any other suitable drivers that will suit my needs that are in my price range?
Click to expand...

Nice choise I would say for a 3 way. The one you choose has break up at 1kHz. So do not use above 800hz
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Your speaker link
swans china highend

I can't find a nice mid speaker on the jaycar site. They do not have a big enough programme to cover the hole frequency range from low to high.

the jaycar (swans) speakers are ok, also the 4" to but that one needs also a mid dome tweeter.

I would advise dayton they have nice low priced speakers.like the rs125s-8.
dayton rs125s 8

And a dome tweeter of dayton. with a L-pad.
nd20fa 6

The smal diameter of the low mid driver is beter. Because you want to place the high and mid as close as possible to gether. To prefent interference distorsion in the XO region, What we realy want is a coaxial like TANGBAND sells those are the best. A point source.
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
gainphile said:
With those prices (Jaycar), I would be looking for Vifa drivers from speakerbits.com as they are melbourne based.

The benefit is there are lots of Vifa designs on the web as compared to Jaycar design. Unless you have the measuring tools and equipments to design loudspeakers its perhaps best to follow a proven one.
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Those chineese drivers of jaycar are the very high qaulity. There is no direct price qaulity link. These are cheap because made in china.

I self use the RT1 ribbon of swans. cost 35euro.

Used in this speaker cost in the shop 1200euro.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


So jaycar sells highend drivers IMO.
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
the 6.5" jaycar will combine very nice with the peerless xt25sr ringradiator. At low power and low XO 2order 12dB/oct

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.



And this way a build my speakers. And I show how to make a nice professional looking box. All stands and falls with good sawing of the wood. So 100% straight and within 0,5mm precise and a sharp blade to prefent breaking of chips.

my project

Regards helmuth
 
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benro2

Member
Joined 2008
Helmuth said:


Those chineese drivers of jaycar are the very high qaulity. There is no direct price qaulity link. These are cheap because made in china.

I self use the RT1 ribbon of swans. cost 35euro.

Used in this speaker cost in the shop 1200euro.

m1_1.jpg


So jaycar sells highend drivers IMO.
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I love the look of those speakers, and I see they use a ribbon tweeter. What's the advantage of using one of these? I like them for the "cool factor" but would they be of any advantage to me?

Also is a DIY project that uses both these same drivers around?


Helmuth said:
And this way a build my speakers. And I show how to make a nice professional looking box. All stands and falls with good sawing of the wood. So 100% straight and within 0,5mm precise and a sharp blade to prefent breaking of chips.

my project
Click to expand...
I had a look at your project and I think it's a *little* too hard for me :) Did you mean you'd help me out with whatever project I choose or do you have a similar project elsewhere? Either way, it's much appreciated!

So you think the Zaph Audio ZBM4's are the way to go?

I was having a look at the other tests on that site and another model on there caught my eye: the ZD5's, simply because he describes them as "an extremely high end reference level small 2-way". He does say the drivers aren't cheap, but I can't find prices anywhere? I would imagine that if I'm after sound quality and accuracy for mixing, then something with an extremely flat response is what I'm after? But that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be the "best" sounding does it? I don't know if these would be cheap enough or suitable for a first-time DIYer - what do you think?
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
I love the look of those speakers, and I see they use a ribbon tweeter. What's the advantage of using one of these? I like them for the "cool factor" but would they be of any advantage to me? Also is a DIY project that uses both these same drivers around?
Click to expand...

The advantage is Ribbons measure very good.

The German klang und Ton tested the RT2 as the best sounding ribbon. Bud I Zaph doesn't like ribbons. I have contact with a Italian how broke with ribbons after 20 years using them. Sound is to thin.

see here Not the same woofer.
Today a did see the RT1 in a shop for 119 euro and I pay 35euro. And I like them.
:)
I had a look at your project and I think it's a *little* too hard for me Did you mean you'd help me out with whatever project I choose or do you have a similar project elsewhere? Either way, it's much appreciated! So you think the Zaph Audio ZBM4's are the way to go? I was having a look at the other tests on that site and another model on there caught my eye: the ZD5's, simply because he describes them as "an extremely high end reference level small 2-way". He does say the drivers aren't cheap, but I can't find prices anywhere? I would imagine that if I'm after sound quality and accuracy for mixing, then something with an extremely flat response is what I'm after? But that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be the "best" sounding does it? I don't know if these would be cheap enough or suitable for a first-time DIYer - what do you think?
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The zbm4 is very good to start your building experience and have a very good result.
ZD5 250 Australian dollars on drivers I think with filter and wood and terminals about 400 dollar minimal. I think the difference will not be so big with the more cheaper designs. Depends on your own demands.

Zaph has many well measured info no nonsense. When you build your self then the result is the question with zaph that is solved. But then your copying a design to save money. Bud I recommend it when you want to go save.
 
B

benro2

Member
Joined 2008
Helmuth said:
the 6.5" jaycar will combine very nice with the peerless xt25sr ringradiator. At low power and low XO 2order 12dB/oct
Click to expand...

Do you know of any DIY projects that have combined these two drivers? I've looked around the net and can't find any!

If you have a look here you can see speakerbit's range of Vifa XT25 tweeters, which look exactly the same as the Peerless XT25SR. Do you know if they are in fact the same, and which driver off that page I would need?

Also, I managed to price the Scan Speak 15W8530K00 drivers as used in the Zaph Audio ZD5 and they are AUS $300 each... :(

I have decided on something that uses a 5" or 6.5" woofer/midrange as I think that would extend the lower end out a bit. Am I correct in assuming this? I would also like something that handles a decent amount of power. Do you have any more suggestions?
 
B

benro2

Member
Joined 2008
Helmuth said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I forgot to mention, I really like the look of these speakers. It looks like they're using HiVi (aka Swans?) drivers exclusively! Just from the pictures, they look like the F5N and the RT1C-A.

Do you know the make/model of these speakers and if anyone has copied them as a DIY project with a writeup?
 
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inertial

Member
Joined 2004
Hi all,

Those Swans have copied the cabinet of the old Sonus Faber !:D

IMO, if you place normal speakers in near field it is possible you 'll not satisfied by "thimbre" because they are developed to stay at least
about 2 metres from you. Too much high and no bass :D

So you have to prevent some little modifications to counterbalancing
this , exerpt they are expressivaly studied to be a near-field monitor.

Just my 2 c.

Cheers,
Paolo
 
gainphile

gainphile

Member
Joined 2007
gainphile.blogspot.com
Nearfield monitors are hard to get correct. I have to admit I've placed 15" dipole speakers on my desk but this simple project is better in many aspects:

http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2008/11/tangband-w3-1364-3-monitor.html


$10 dicksmith box, $40 drivers and few other components. And I could use the original drivers for testers. Coherence of full-range driver is hard to beat. Of course it lacks thundering bass but for that I'd just go to the living room and listen to the cannons
 
B

benro2

Member
Joined 2008
Thanks for the replies, guys. I've been doing a bit of research and have found these two kits based on Vifa and Peerless drivers: here and here. I don't know which is better - has anyone reviewed these? I've priced the drivers only from the first link at about AUS $350 from speakerbits.com - can't find the Peerless drivers on there from the other kit. Yes, that's a bit over budget but I don't mind spending a bit more on drivers if that means better sound.

I also found these: the AAD 7001 bookshelf by Phil Jones. I'm sure most of you have heard of these before because it seems they're winning all sorts of awards. Then I saw the price... US $12,500... :p It seems like these are exactly what I'm looking for - something with an extremely flat response, designed to be nearfield monitors, with a great bass extention. So are there any DIY projects out there that have copied this design or use similar principles (passive radiator, etc)? I'd imagine the internals of these would be quite complicated though? I also realise they take a bit of power to drive (recommended >200W!) but since I don't have an amp yet, that's not a problem - that's for another time and thread! :)

I think I might have shifted my sights somewhat (which I'm sure always happens with DIY projects!) - now I want something that is very accurate but relatively small but can still reproduce very low bass. That doesn't mean bass heavy as I originally mentioned, just the ability to extend to those depths. I presume this is out of the league of "normal" bookshelves and is more in the area of more exotic things like those 7001s, but if there is something out there for the right price, even though it may be a bit harder to build, I'm up for it! I can get help if I need it... :p
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
Yes, that's a bit over budget but I don't mind spending a bit more on drivers if that means better sound.
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Again there is no direct relation to sound quality and price. If you did read the test an the Zaph site you would know.

You did choose nice designs.
About passive radiators they give al lot of group delay thats not so nice. A bass reflex has less group delay and a closed box has the best group delay data.

A good two way closed box would be the best but then 60Hz will be the cut off frequency I guess.

I hope you read thismtm

I am a bit visaton fan so check the
bijoukit with ceramic tweeter.
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Or an other nice german brand Alcone.
Here a site witch sells complete kits.
ribbon
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Shelf speakers search on brand speakershelf kits

Succes
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
I think you are searching for curious design. No book shelf, but attractive white honeycomb structure membrane cone. And a example of a very low price Dáppolito.

Test result Extreme price performance kit.

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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


text German.

plan

link
 
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