The Drude model

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
AX tech editor
Joined 2002
Paid Member
A plasmon is a quantum of a plasma oscillation. The plasmon is the quasiparticle resulting from the quantization of plasma oscillations just as photons and phonons are quantizations of light and sound waves, respectively. Thus, plasmons are collective oscillations of the free electron gas density, often at optical frequencies.

Jan Didden
 
AX tech editor
Joined 2002
Paid Member
john curl said:
It exists, but it is not important? :cheeky:


The Drude model is the application of kinetic theory to electrons in a solid. It assumes that the material contains immobile positive ions and an "electron gas" of classical, non-interacting electrons of density n, each of whose motion is damped by a frictional force due to collisions of the electrons with the ions, characterized by a relaxation time ô. This simple classical model provides a very good explanation of DC and AC conductivity in metals, the Hall effect, and thermal conductivity (due to electrons) in metals. The model explains the Wiedemann-Franz law.

Jan Didden
 
Approximations are not completely accurate. That is why we study the QM model, and why exceptions can prove the rule. It is also why many here cannot believe in newer technology, because they rely on the Drude model that is obsolete for real physicists, but a close approximation for engineers. Kind of like the planetary model of the atom with the electrons whizzing around the nucleus. Works pretty good for high school chemistry, don't you agree? :geezer:
 
AX tech editor
Joined 2002
Paid Member
OTOH, if you think about phenomena like synaesthesia, a neurologically-based phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway, it becomes much clearer.

In one common form of synaesthesia, known as grapheme or color synaesthesia, letters or numbers are perceived as inherently colored, while in ordinal linguistic personification, numbers, days of the week and months of the year evoke colors or personalities.
In spatial-sequence, or number form synaesthesia, numbers, months of the year, and/or days of the week elicit precise locations in space (for example, 1980 may be "farther away" than 1990), or may have a (three-dimensional) view of a year as a map (clockwise or counterclockwise).

While cross-sensory metaphors (e.g., "loud shirt", "bitter wind" or "prickly laugh") are sometimes described as "synaesthetic", true neurological synaesthesia is involuntary. It is one reason why we are more sensitive to low-frequency sound when it is associated with a larger, dark object, and why a bright, small object illicits associations with higher frequency sounds.
Synaesthesia provides a scientific footing for the need for DBT in audio.

Jan Didden
 
Approximations are not completely accurate. That is why we study the QM model, and why exceptions can prove the rule.

The Drude-model is a meanfield theory and meanfield theories (like density functional theory) were and still are rather essential in solid state physics. Even convential superconductivity is explained by the BCS-theory which is essentially a meanfield-theory.

Coming back to the Drude-model: every model is valid within its limitations; so for the usual metalls, it is perfectly applicable for DC and AC. There are no exceptions, only cases where the conditions for validity are not met.

I'm wondering what you mean by QM; probably quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics are not focused especially on electron interactions as such, it's just the application of the Schrödinger equation which incorporates a general interaction term (whatever it might be).

Since this problem (electronic interaction in a solid) is unsolvable as such, there will always be approximations.

And what is constantly forgotten here, is the classical limit which demands that all quantum fun has to converge to classical behaviour for large dimensions. Large being at least on the magnitude of micrometers and up. That is already a very generous number.

Quantum mechanics became here a new buzzword that is taken to explain otherwise not explainable audio phenomena, however I don't see anything that would give reason for its applicability.

Have fun, Hannes
 
Engineers use the Drude model, physicists use the QM model. Look it up. If some of you would read serious books on this stuff, you would easily understand that there is a difference. Most here do not have the prerequisites for understanding it however. I certainly have a difficult time and can't break it down to bite sized pieces for technicians or even most practicing engineers to understand. You have to try, on a personal basis, to understand that there is a difference, and that it might be useful and important, sometimes, like a 'tunnel diode' can be useful, yet impossible to explain with the Drude model or the like.
 
AX tech editor
Joined 2002
Paid Member
Synaesthesia is related to, but not the same, as cross-modal matching. As an example how one sensory input influences another, consider the following experiment.

Assume that there is a two-letter alphabet. One letter is roundshaped and the other resembles a pointed star. Ask people which letter would be called 'booba' and which one would be called 'kiki'.

Overwhelming, people chose 'booba' for the round letter and 'kiki' for the start-shaped letter. That's because the mouth assumes the round contour of the letters when saying 'booba' and vice versa.

The way your mouth forms letters influences what you think things should be called.

Jan Didden
 
john curl said:
Engineers use the Drude model, physicists use the QM model. Look it up. If some of you would read serious books on this stuff, you would easily understand that there is a difference. Most here do not have the prerequisites for understanding it however. I certainly have a difficult time and can't break it down to bite sized pieces for technicians or even most practicing engineers to understand. You have to try, on a personal basis, to understand that there is a difference, and that it might be useful and important, sometimes, like a 'tunnel diode' can be useful, yet impossible to explain with the Drude model or the like.

Like my ol' gran'pappy used to say, "I sees a whole lotta choppin' goin' on, but they ain't no chips a flyin'."

se
 
Works pretty good for high school chemistry, don't you agree?

No, it doesn't. The QM of atoms can be taught on a high school and college freshman level just as easily (that's how I did it and it was done at every school I attended), and the filling of "shells" suddenly makes sense, rather than being a blind "rule of eight" with a bazillion exceptions. The strength of that view is that it leads directly to the VSEPR model, allowing a high school student seeing "H2O" to immediately predict that it will be bent and at a slightly smaller angle than 120 degrees (in fact, it turns out to be about 110 degrees) without doing any calculation.
 
SY, I wish to say, in all fairness, that your physics does not appear to be up to date. You may understand what you learned in physics, in the past, far better than me, but you do not appear to be attempting to keep up to date, and like Jim Austin, attack me without justification. I really don't appreciate it, and it makes it pointless to even try to converse.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.