Replacing 6N1P's with 6922s or 7308s
Hi Everyone,
I just got a Promitheus Audio Apollo Preamp using a pair of Russian 6n1p tubes as a tube buffer stage for the TVC. I have tried to replace with a pair of RCA 6922s Germany. First thing I noticed one of the 6922 was glaring up then the buzzy noises came out of my VR1 speakers.
I do not know what happened but I have heard both kind of tubes are equivalent except 6N1P has high heater. I like the sound of 6922 and love to roll tubes.
Anyone has had experiences about these tubes please let me know. I thank you and appreciate your time and effort.
Regards,
Tan
Hi Everyone,
I just got a Promitheus Audio Apollo Preamp using a pair of Russian 6n1p tubes as a tube buffer stage for the TVC. I have tried to replace with a pair of RCA 6922s Germany. First thing I noticed one of the 6922 was glaring up then the buzzy noises came out of my VR1 speakers.
I do not know what happened but I have heard both kind of tubes are equivalent except 6N1P has high heater. I like the sound of 6922 and love to roll tubes.
Anyone has had experiences about these tubes please let me know. I thank you and appreciate your time and effort.
Regards,
Tan
The 6N1P (Russian: 6Í1Ï) is a Russian-made miniature 9-pin medium gain double triode vacuum tube intended for use as a line audio amplifier and cathode driver.
Basic data: Uf = 6.3V, If = 600 mA uM = 35 Ia = 7.5 mA S = 4.35 mA/V Pa = 2.2 W
The 6N1P has similar ratings to the 6DJ8 and in the past was sometimes rebranded as such, however, because of the differences between the two types (such as twice as high filament current of an 6N1P and three times smaller S value) it's not suitable as a direct replacement in 6DJ8 applications and vice versa.
A ruggedized/extended ratings version of the tube is designated 6N1P-EV (Russian: 6Í1Ï-ÅÂ)
It has currently found a use as a driver tube in hi-fi tube amplifiers (such as Audio Research models VS55 and VS110) because of its excellent low distortion and low noise characteristics. The tube is being manufactured by "Voshod" plant in Kaluga, Russia (see [1]) and is being distributed in the West under the Sovtek and Svetlana brand names.
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I suggest buying off of ebay from the various Ukranian, Russian, and Belgian, etc folk who have many diferent versions of that tube.
Some are of extreme quality, all being..realtively speaking..military surplus. There are some tubes of that type you might pay as much as $30-50 US each for, if you were to buy them from the usual big name tube re-seller stores. Instead, you will pay $15 or so for 10-20 tubes.
Basic data: Uf = 6.3V, If = 600 mA uM = 35 Ia = 7.5 mA S = 4.35 mA/V Pa = 2.2 W
The 6N1P has similar ratings to the 6DJ8 and in the past was sometimes rebranded as such, however, because of the differences between the two types (such as twice as high filament current of an 6N1P and three times smaller S value) it's not suitable as a direct replacement in 6DJ8 applications and vice versa.
A ruggedized/extended ratings version of the tube is designated 6N1P-EV (Russian: 6Í1Ï-ÅÂ)
It has currently found a use as a driver tube in hi-fi tube amplifiers (such as Audio Research models VS55 and VS110) because of its excellent low distortion and low noise characteristics. The tube is being manufactured by "Voshod" plant in Kaluga, Russia (see [1]) and is being distributed in the West under the Sovtek and Svetlana brand names.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I suggest buying off of ebay from the various Ukranian, Russian, and Belgian, etc folk who have many diferent versions of that tube.
Some are of extreme quality, all being..realtively speaking..military surplus. There are some tubes of that type you might pay as much as $30-50 US each for, if you were to buy them from the usual big name tube re-seller stores. Instead, you will pay $15 or so for 10-20 tubes.
I don't have the data sheets in front of me but I believe the maximum plate voltage for the 6922 it 150 while for the 6N1P it is 200 (or more?). It is possible the 6N1Ps in your preamp are running near their limit which is too high for the 6922.
You could still make the switch but it would require changing the plate and cathode resistors to values that would allow the lower voltage 6922 to operate within its limit.
You could still make the switch but it would require changing the plate and cathode resistors to values that would allow the lower voltage 6922 to operate within its limit.
6922 and 6N1P are not identical. It will be more than adding a resistor to drop the plate voltage. Notice that the current bias point is not likely optimal for the 6922. This means that you will need to adjust the cathode resistor as well. I suggest to get a schematic before attempt doing any mod. You don't want unpleasant surprise
In the one application I've used the 6N1P it has been a fine performer. The guy who has it now is a big time tube roller and he preferred the 6N1P (in a white cathode follower circuit mind you) over most of his 6922/6DJ8 collection. What does that mean? Dunno - other than the 6N1P is cheap and sounds good - why change it?
Sorry but 6N1Ps in my Promitheus Apollo preamp sound dull and not musical at all in my system.
I have rolled most of the best 6922s, 7308s, 6DJ8s, 6N1P-EBs and special 6N1Ps (from Promitheus Audio) but I choose Siemens PCC189s are among the best sounding tubes in my system then 7308s and 6DJ8s (both have less buzzing sound than 6922s).
I have rolled most of the best 6922s, 7308s, 6DJ8s, 6N1P-EBs and special 6N1Ps (from Promitheus Audio) but I choose Siemens PCC189s are among the best sounding tubes in my system then 7308s and 6DJ8s (both have less buzzing sound than 6922s).
I've subbed the "Winged C" Svetlana 6N1P into a couple of chinese amps which had tubes labelled 6N1P. In every case it was a vast improvement.
This is what the 'Winged C' advertisement says:
The 'Winged C' 6N1P is a miniature glass-envelope small-signal dual triode intended for use as a line-level amplifier or driver in high-quality audio amplifiers. Except for higher heater current consumption (600mA vs. 365mA), it is a direct plug-in replacement for the 6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922. You cannot use it in Audible Illusions, Balanced Audio Technology or Sonic Frontiers preamps due to the limitations in their power supplies. Features include very low distortion - optimised for line stages, internally shielded between sections, higher plate voltage and dissipation ratings and larger cathode than 6DJ8 types, giving it longer life and more transient current capability. This tube has a big, musical sound with better dynamics than most 6922s. Its cathode is huge and offers a lot of drive. It performs extremely well as a driver or audio stage in power amps, lines stages and in some preamps
Cheers,
Ian
This is what the 'Winged C' advertisement says:
The 'Winged C' 6N1P is a miniature glass-envelope small-signal dual triode intended for use as a line-level amplifier or driver in high-quality audio amplifiers. Except for higher heater current consumption (600mA vs. 365mA), it is a direct plug-in replacement for the 6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922. You cannot use it in Audible Illusions, Balanced Audio Technology or Sonic Frontiers preamps due to the limitations in their power supplies. Features include very low distortion - optimised for line stages, internally shielded between sections, higher plate voltage and dissipation ratings and larger cathode than 6DJ8 types, giving it longer life and more transient current capability. This tube has a big, musical sound with better dynamics than most 6922s. Its cathode is huge and offers a lot of drive. It performs extremely well as a driver or audio stage in power amps, lines stages and in some preamps
Cheers,
Ian
As I was ordering some replacement output tubes in my amp, it seemed a good idea to order some new 6N1 pre-amps also. Same make, Svetlana, but these were much cheaper than the Svetlana's I ordered before. When they arrived I noticed that the logo, make and tube number were slightly different. The logo had changed from a squashed 'S' to a circle enclosing a large letter 'C'. Also the print had changed from gold to Black and the 'SVETLANA ELECTRON DEVICES' to just simply 'SVETLANA'. Incidentally the new circled C was also printed on the box bearing the Svetlana name. However, there was also something different about these tubes. The older tubes, despite nearly 2 years of use, still had bright sparkling pins yet the new 6N1's were rather dull and required some cleaning. There was also the clear fact that these 6N1's were not lighting up anything as brightly as the older ones and it had a very marked effect on the amplifiers performance. After some weeks of trying to convince myself that these new 6N1's were probably satisfactory, I experimented one evening by re-tubing with the older gold printed tubes. The effect was amazing and opened up the top end again and returned that magical 'air' that has to be experienced to be fully understood. So this post serves to highlight the very important fact that one type of 6N1 may not sound like another so we should be careful not to base our experiences on one particular batch, let alone brand. It really is the same effect we get with all thermionic tubes leaving us with our very own brand preference whether it be a 6922, EL34, KT88 etc. In respect of replacing a 6N1 with a 6922 I would say No! The amplifier where the 6N1 is fitted may be using the extra high voltage this valve allows and a 6922 would be operating out of its limits. You can fit a 6N1 in place of a 6922 providing the power supply can provide the extra heater current and you may have to experiment with the biasing.
yeah not all 6922 can direct replace with 6N1P me already check with spec it can be use just need replace with bigger amp transformer even work with 6N23P i compare with EH 6922 , Voskhod 6N1P-EB and Voskhod 6N23P.Found 6N1P-EB sound better for my ear my 6N1P manufacture Nov 1988 the pin still shinning
my 6N1P manufacture Nov 1988 the pin still shinning
Quote of an earlier post on this subject with a Yaqin MC10L-
Well it has been some months of trial but I can now report on my own findings regarding replacement of 6N1's with ECC85's. I fitted ECC85 valves in the front end of each channel and my initial feelings were that the top end was just slightly lifted at the expense of the lower middle range. I did not need this extra top end as the Tannoy speakers here provide enough and I found it difficult to decide if the overall effect was really an improvement or a degradation. Now my ears are pretty shot now as I am over 60 but one day a young friend of mine in his 20's came to listen to the amp. When he entered the room he put his hands to his ears and said "Wow!, There is a high pitched whistle like a cat scarer in your house". It was coming from the left hand channel of the amp so I quickly refitted the 6N1's and everything was fine. I also noticed that the amp was now giving me the fuller sound stage that it of course had before I made the changes. So from my point of view, for what it is worth, I would not recommend spending $$ to fit ECC85's to your Yaqin, just treat it to some Svetlana 6N1 Golds, if you can find them.
In short, the ECC85's made the amp a little unstable so if you do decide to fit I recommend some oscilloscope checks at the time
Well it has been some months of trial but I can now report on my own findings regarding replacement of 6N1's with ECC85's. I fitted ECC85 valves in the front end of each channel and my initial feelings were that the top end was just slightly lifted at the expense of the lower middle range. I did not need this extra top end as the Tannoy speakers here provide enough and I found it difficult to decide if the overall effect was really an improvement or a degradation. Now my ears are pretty shot now as I am over 60 but one day a young friend of mine in his 20's came to listen to the amp. When he entered the room he put his hands to his ears and said "Wow!, There is a high pitched whistle like a cat scarer in your house". It was coming from the left hand channel of the amp so I quickly refitted the 6N1's and everything was fine. I also noticed that the amp was now giving me the fuller sound stage that it of course had before I made the changes. So from my point of view, for what it is worth, I would not recommend spending $$ to fit ECC85's to your Yaqin, just treat it to some Svetlana 6N1 Golds, if you can find them.
In short, the ECC85's made the amp a little unstable so if you do decide to fit I recommend some oscilloscope checks at the time
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