Anyone hear of this http://www.planotspeaker.com/index.html
Comments anyone, would this, could this work well?
From the website...
A new dynamic loudspeaker technology that eliminates the need for an enclosing box and separate drivers for highs, mids and bass frequencies. Consequently, no crossover is needed. This new design allows for all frequencies to be radiated in a unified cylindrical wave front. Sound is radiated in 360 degrees in the horizontal plane. In the vertical plane it radiates as a line source producing an ideal radiation pattern for the listening space.
Not only does Planot reproduce sound more accurately than any other design but it is cheaper to manufacture and uses fewer natural resources. It is a green machine.
The Planot speaker functions as a "folded" planar speaker that pivots around its long axis, hence the name Planot
(planar/pivot) speaker. As far as air is concerned, the driver is a mobius surface (an object that is a one-sided surface).
A Planot driver's width ensures that the highest frequencies, therefore all frequencies, radiate in a 360 degree pattern. Its pivoting design overcomes the pistonic flexing of traditional speakers of all kinds. The Pivot trades torsional forces for the tensile forces that traditional speakers' designs must endure.
A typical Planot driver would be triangular in cross section and 48 inches long, with each face being 3/4 inches across the short dimension.
Comments anyone, would this, could this work well?
From the website...
A new dynamic loudspeaker technology that eliminates the need for an enclosing box and separate drivers for highs, mids and bass frequencies. Consequently, no crossover is needed. This new design allows for all frequencies to be radiated in a unified cylindrical wave front. Sound is radiated in 360 degrees in the horizontal plane. In the vertical plane it radiates as a line source producing an ideal radiation pattern for the listening space.
Not only does Planot reproduce sound more accurately than any other design but it is cheaper to manufacture and uses fewer natural resources. It is a green machine.
The Planot speaker functions as a "folded" planar speaker that pivots around its long axis, hence the name Planot
(planar/pivot) speaker. As far as air is concerned, the driver is a mobius surface (an object that is a one-sided surface).
A Planot driver's width ensures that the highest frequencies, therefore all frequencies, radiate in a 360 degree pattern. Its pivoting design overcomes the pistonic flexing of traditional speakers of all kinds. The Pivot trades torsional forces for the tensile forces that traditional speakers' designs must endure.
A typical Planot driver would be triangular in cross section and 48 inches long, with each face being 3/4 inches across the short dimension.
Dear forum readers, I can assure you that the Planot (tm) speaker does work. It works very well. I have to admit that I did not expect people to think it would not work after they had read the description and the logic of the design! I have read the comments of many people, on other discussion sites, who swear that the Planot can not work and then in their next sentence admit that they have not read the explanation under "How it works" on my Web site.
The fact that -most- people do not believe the Planot even works now is quite humorous.
I plan on having a -much- more advanced prototype within the next three months. (The current prototype was built merely to prove the technology works.) I will be making it available to national reviewers.
I am the inventor. I do not have plans to manufacture the Planot myself but license the patent to others to manufacture. I may make plans with single licenses available to hobbyists in the near future.
J.J.G.
The fact that -most- people do not believe the Planot even works now is quite humorous.
I plan on having a -much- more advanced prototype within the next three months. (The current prototype was built merely to prove the technology works.) I will be making it available to national reviewers.
I am the inventor. I do not have plans to manufacture the Planot myself but license the patent to others to manufacture. I may make plans with single licenses available to hobbyists in the near future.
J.J.G.
I am not familiar with the type of drives used in your concept, maybe it is strong enough to produce treble with a higher moving mass than a voice coil can, but won`t this result in a very low sensitivity?
At the last Highend in Munich I was shocked about the amount of money and distortion some people are prepared to accept for a true omni. I suspect it is not possible to build a 4000W amp that tonally gives a good performance.
At the last Highend in Munich I was shocked about the amount of money and distortion some people are prepared to accept for a true omni. I suspect it is not possible to build a 4000W amp that tonally gives a good performance.
What product are you talking of ?
I too believe that this contraption will make sound - no doubt about it. But
1.) It will do so with a very low efficiency due to the very disadvantageous mass/vd ratio.
2.) The use of a "magnetic spring" doesn't help giving good linearity.
3.) It will show a very strange horizontal radiation pattern (think of multiple dipolar linesources mounted in a circle).
Unfortunaltely the patent-law is your foe in this respect. Hobbyists building your invention just for their own pleasure can do so without owing anyone any royalties.
Regards
Charles
The MBL has a big soundstage. The speakers are not localizable. Imaging is a bit unprecise. I heard the MBLs with classical music and found the sound character electronic, a bit like 80ies Japan-electronics. Those who heard it with techno music were more impressed. I would like to listen to German Physics in comparison, which are much more amplifier-friendly.
Charles said:
Actually, Charles, at least under the USA patent laws, hobbyists can not build a model without a license. I am thinking of using a model -similar- to shareware or maybe open source software. The motor will be relatively difficult for a hobbyist to build. The diaphragm will also be difficult but may not be impossible. Hobbyists do build electrostatic and planar dynamic speakers. Hobbyists build huge model rockets and piloted airplanes! Many professionals started as hobbyists.
A speaker kit would be a possibility. These and other ideas are possibilities. I would not want to compete with commercial licensees but then I think that hobbyists are a small minority. What do you think? I obviously am looking at ways to capitalize on my invention but on the other hand I have been an audio hobbyist for thirty years and encourage experimentation and creativity.
J.J.G.
I too believe that this contraption will make sound - no doubt about it. But
1.) It will do so with a very low efficiency due to the very disadvantageous mass/vd ratio.
2.) The use of a "magnetic spring" doesn't help giving good linearity.
3.) It will show a very strange horizontal radiation pattern (think of multiple dipolar linesources mounted in a circle).
Charles
Planot replies...
1) No, again, the Planot (TM) is relatively efficient.
2) If a magnetic "spring", as in a speaker surround, is -not linear- then how can a magnetic motor be linear? A speaker -is- a magnetic motor. A magnetic "suspension" by itself is only one option. You can combine magnetic springs with other kind of springs in a complimentary fashion.
3) The horizontal radiation pattern subjectively is 360 degrees. There may be some unevenness to the horizontal radiation but in a real living environment none is apparent.
I have never been a slave to theory but I use real experience as a guide. If I was a slave to theory then I would never have invented the Planot driver.
Audio engineers most often agree it will work but then are anxious to prove it will not reproduce sound with fidelity, sigh.
If people were not so negative then art/science would advance more quickly than it does. Generally people in the audio field are more open to new ideas than the scientific or engineering community. Although, I have had several manufactures already at this early stage inquire about licensing the patent just based on the information on my Web site.
I am working as fast as I can to get a more advanced prototype available for review. But again it will be a prototype. As an individual I don't have large financial resources available. (I have a daughter getting married this month and another still in college.) I am just one of you guys.
Thanks, Charles!
J.J.G.
1.) It will do so with a very low efficiency due to the very disadvantageous mass/vd ratio.
2.) The use of a "magnetic spring" doesn't help giving good linearity.
3.) It will show a very strange horizontal radiation pattern (think of multiple dipolar linesources mounted in a circle).
Charles
Planot replies...
1) No, again, the Planot (TM) is relatively efficient.
2) If a magnetic "spring", as in a speaker surround, is -not linear- then how can a magnetic motor be linear? A speaker -is- a magnetic motor. A magnetic "suspension" by itself is only one option. You can combine magnetic springs with other kind of springs in a complimentary fashion.
3) The horizontal radiation pattern subjectively is 360 degrees. There may be some unevenness to the horizontal radiation but in a real living environment none is apparent.
I have never been a slave to theory but I use real experience as a guide. If I was a slave to theory then I would never have invented the Planot driver.
Audio engineers most often agree it will work but then are anxious to prove it will not reproduce sound with fidelity, sigh.If people were not so negative then art/science would advance more quickly than it does. Generally people in the audio field are more open to new ideas than the scientific or engineering community. Although, I have had several manufactures already at this early stage inquire about licensing the patent just based on the information on my Web site.
I am working as fast as I can to get a more advanced prototype available for review. But again it will be a prototype. As an individual I don't have large financial resources available. (I have a daughter getting married this month and another still in college.) I am just one of you guys.
Thanks, Charles!
J.J.G.
When playing say 80db at your listening position...
How many degrees rotation does it move?
Does it need to rotate clockwise and then counterclockwise?
Seems like you'd need more powerful motor system than a regular driver to get it to start and stop the higher mass of the triangle rod.
Does the bar flex much in operation or does it stay relatively rigid? I'm thinking that aluminum would still twist a bit. Are you trying to turn the rod or is it more of a twisting motion?
How loud can it play?
What happens when you put it in a horn or waveguide?
Can you electronically correct for any non linearity? Or does the musical signal pretty much drive the motion.
How many degrees rotation does it move?
Does it need to rotate clockwise and then counterclockwise?
Seems like you'd need more powerful motor system than a regular driver to get it to start and stop the higher mass of the triangle rod.
Does the bar flex much in operation or does it stay relatively rigid? I'm thinking that aluminum would still twist a bit. Are you trying to turn the rod or is it more of a twisting motion?
How loud can it play?
What happens when you put it in a horn or waveguide?
Can you electronically correct for any non linearity? Or does the musical signal pretty much drive the motion.
Please note that the current prototype is very "basic" and created as a "proof of concept device." Because of this I am not giving out specifications of the current prototype. They will not be that impressive due only to my limited engineering skills _not_ because of a limitation of the concept.
The diaphragm _does_ pivot back and forth.
I have not experimented with horns or wave guides--this actually is counter to my design philosophy ( eliminating enclosures and their problems such as diffraction and limited dispersion ) but I don't see anything that would restrict using them.
Actually I am using an embarrassingly small motor now in prototype 3! I think it will take a modest size motor to drive a full range speaker. A larger motor will only improve performance.
Yes, the response could be modified by electronic manipulation -- filters, equalization, etc. -- the same as any loudspeaker.
Thanks,
J.J.G.
The diaphragm _does_ pivot back and forth.
I have not experimented with horns or wave guides--this actually is counter to my design philosophy ( eliminating enclosures and their problems such as diffraction and limited dispersion ) but I don't see anything that would restrict using them.
Actually I am using an embarrassingly small motor now in prototype 3! I think it will take a modest size motor to drive a full range speaker. A larger motor will only improve performance.
Yes, the response could be modified by electronic manipulation -- filters, equalization, etc. -- the same as any loudspeaker.
Thanks,
J.J.G.
Have got a bit similar idea about rotating membrane. Not tested it yet because lack of time. It would be cool if someone could test the next idea:
Let´s modify planar magnetic line source speaker:
1) Cylindrical foil that fits into the magnetic gap. Reason: More rigid than planar.
2) Make it eccentric by adding weight on one edge and having voice coil on the opposite.
One of the problems can be air inside the tube, it´s weight etc. Too hard to fill by helium
Let´s modify planar magnetic line source speaker:
1) Cylindrical foil that fits into the magnetic gap. Reason: More rigid than planar.
2) Make it eccentric by adding weight on one edge and having voice coil on the opposite.
One of the problems can be air inside the tube, it´s weight etc. Too hard to fill by helium
New information on Planot Web site...
Please navigate to:
http://www.planotspeaker.com
for new information including forthcoming blueprints for building a Planot(TM) driver.
Photo of the Planot speaker prototype P3 at NCEE Labs. The Planot speaker has been certified at NCEE Labs in their 10 meter semi-anechoic chamber.
See a photo of P4.
Also please go to the Audio Nervosa and the AV123 forums for more discussions about the Planot speaker.
John
Please navigate to:
http://www.planotspeaker.com
for new information including forthcoming blueprints for building a Planot(TM) driver.
Photo of the Planot speaker prototype P3 at NCEE Labs. The Planot speaker has been certified at NCEE Labs in their 10 meter semi-anechoic chamber.
See a photo of P4.
Also please go to the Audio Nervosa and the AV123 forums for more discussions about the Planot speaker.
John
I looked at the site.
couldn't distinguish the device in the image... nice pix of aluminum plates and what looks like an old disc drive motor coil assembly.
iirc, geez what is his name, CRS strikes again... ummm Tom Danley has a LF driver that is in effect a "fan".
It strikes me that this device acheives compression/expansion of air due the rotation of the geometric shape much like a fan does. Nothing wrong with that per se.
But since you've tested it in a chamber, and have not put any of the basic graphs or specs on the site, it's still a very preliminary idea.
In practice, mass and friction (bearing noise too) are your enemies.
Thinking about it, you're also not truly omnidirectional either, and there may or may not be some dopper shift distortions, a bit depends on the F3 point, and the "Xmax" required for reasonable output levels...
Also, before you do a full patent search, don't be too sure that someone has not come up with essentially the same concept before you came upon it - most ideas in speakers have been tried and/or patented already. Not all, but most practical ones, and some impractical.
Word to the wise - forget about single licensing to hobbyists at all, not practical. If ur going to make money it will be supplying pre-made kits or kit parts. You're not likely to sell licenses to DIYers, at least no one I know of has done it yet.
_-_-bear
couldn't distinguish the device in the image... nice pix of aluminum plates and what looks like an old disc drive motor coil assembly.
iirc, geez what is his name, CRS strikes again... ummm Tom Danley has a LF driver that is in effect a "fan".
It strikes me that this device acheives compression/expansion of air due the rotation of the geometric shape much like a fan does. Nothing wrong with that per se.
But since you've tested it in a chamber, and have not put any of the basic graphs or specs on the site, it's still a very preliminary idea.
In practice, mass and friction (bearing noise too) are your enemies.
Thinking about it, you're also not truly omnidirectional either, and there may or may not be some dopper shift distortions, a bit depends on the F3 point, and the "Xmax" required for reasonable output levels...
Also, before you do a full patent search, don't be too sure that someone has not come up with essentially the same concept before you came upon it - most ideas in speakers have been tried and/or patented already. Not all, but most practical ones, and some impractical.
Word to the wise - forget about single licensing to hobbyists at all, not practical. If ur going to make money it will be supplying pre-made kits or kit parts. You're not likely to sell licenses to DIYers, at least no one I know of has done it yet.
_-_-bear
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