Hi There
My beloved Quads i beginning so show the effects of the previous owners tweak attempts - the dustcovers has been removed, and I think this is why one of them is beginning to play lower (abaout 6-8 dB I would guess) than the other - I suspect that some of the panels has been shortet
I have heard that quad does not supply parts anymore - does anybody know if and where I can buy mylar and conductive spray, so I can attempt to get the speakers back in good condition ???
Or should I forget about it, at get startet on a set of Proac 2.5 clones ???
Cheers !
Hans
My beloved Quads i beginning so show the effects of the previous owners tweak attempts - the dustcovers has been removed, and I think this is why one of them is beginning to play lower (abaout 6-8 dB I would guess) than the other - I suspect that some of the panels has been shortet
I have heard that quad does not supply parts anymore - does anybody know if and where I can buy mylar and conductive spray, so I can attempt to get the speakers back in good condition ???
Or should I forget about it, at get startet on a set of Proac 2.5 clones ???
Cheers !
Hans
It's been years since i last had anything to do with electrostats and my advice may be quite rusty. It's unlikely anything is shorted. Can you check that your high voltage is ok? And all the panels are getting it? If yes, the mylar is probably not holding the charge any more. I've successfully used colloid solution of carbon dust or various antistatic sprays. Opening the panels will allow you to inspect the mylar for pin-holes as well.
good luck
peter
good luck
peter
analog_sa said:
- No, I'm afraid I cannot - I don't have a voltmeter that will take 5000 volts - is ther any other way to check the high voltage than to measure it directley ?
- What reasons should I target for them not to get it - failed solderings ?
- Ok, so what you suggest is to reapply some coating ?
- Pinholes - would that be burned out holes because of arching ??
I think I'll need it
Thank you so much for you effort !
/Hans
Hello
These people advertise in hi-fi news (uk mag).
I don't know if they're good or bad, but they say they sell panels for quad 57.
They're based in Germany
e-mail:
quad.ger@t-online.de
Good luck!
Rob
These people advertise in hi-fi news (uk mag).
I don't know if they're good or bad, but they say they sell panels for quad 57.
They're based in Germany
e-mail:
quad.ger@t-online.de
Good luck!
Rob
Hans, I know they no longer support the '57 and transferred the jigs to the German company mentioned but I would be surprised if Quad were no longer supporting the ESL63. Have you tried contacting them yet?
Their latest models are still basically ESL63's but with extra base sections, so I would have thought they can still service the '63.
Andrew
Their latest models are still basically ESL63's but with extra base sections, so I would have thought they can still service the '63.
Andrew
If there isn't any visible problem with the speaker (torn diaphragm, for example), put a brush attachment on your vacuum cleaner and try vacuuming the panels clean, especially around the edge of the drivers. The stators don't go all the way to the edges, but something like a cat hair between the diaphragm and stator can cause a problem.
There are four panels inside the speaker. If one has stopped working you will be able to tell by listening with your ear close to the speaker. Start at the top edge of the speaker and slowly move your head down. A dead panel will become obvious.
Another potential problem is that the HV supply is not producing adequate voltage. First, check the line voltage input switches on both speakers and make sure both are set to the same and correct voltage. If a rectifier in the voltage multiplier dies, I believe you will see lower voltage at the output. This is an easy and inexpensive problem to fix. Just get a bunch of 10kV rated diodes and replace them all. It won't cost more than a few dollars (or whatever currency you use) and about an hour of your time.
Once you fix them, put some dust covers on them. They were there for a reason (as you may be finding out the hard way).
MR
There are four panels inside the speaker. If one has stopped working you will be able to tell by listening with your ear close to the speaker. Start at the top edge of the speaker and slowly move your head down. A dead panel will become obvious.
Another potential problem is that the HV supply is not producing adequate voltage. First, check the line voltage input switches on both speakers and make sure both are set to the same and correct voltage. If a rectifier in the voltage multiplier dies, I believe you will see lower voltage at the output. This is an easy and inexpensive problem to fix. Just get a bunch of 10kV rated diodes and replace them all. It won't cost more than a few dollars (or whatever currency you use) and about an hour of your time.
Once you fix them, put some dust covers on them. They were there for a reason (as you may be finding out the hard way).
MR
Hi Guys
Thanx for all the replies - I understand now that the problem migth not be caused by shortend panels, but the electronics may also have a role to play. I will devote some time to have them checked according to the service manual, by a skilled technician, as im afraid to work with high voltage ( dont know if it is as dangerous as i think it is...)
I have made the proposed test with listening from "the top and down" with the ear close to the panels, and I do not think that any of the panels are "dead", but especially the two panels behind the circles are more dull, compared to the other speaker.
I think the problem migth be the voltage supply, or as one have suggested - mechanical weak solderings, causing some of the ring shaped panels not to have higt voltage, and thus not playing.
If it turns out to be faulty panels, I have located a nice spare parts supplyer - located in Sweeden, wery close to where I live in Denmark - nice !
URL: http://user.tninet.se/~vhw129w/mt_audio_design/index.htm
Thanx again for the replys, I will start investigating
Cheers !
Hans Houmøller
Thanx for all the replies - I understand now that the problem migth not be caused by shortend panels, but the electronics may also have a role to play. I will devote some time to have them checked according to the service manual, by a skilled technician, as im afraid to work with high voltage ( dont know if it is as dangerous as i think it is...)
I have made the proposed test with listening from "the top and down" with the ear close to the panels, and I do not think that any of the panels are "dead", but especially the two panels behind the circles are more dull, compared to the other speaker.
I think the problem migth be the voltage supply, or as one have suggested - mechanical weak solderings, causing some of the ring shaped panels not to have higt voltage, and thus not playing.
If it turns out to be faulty panels, I have located a nice spare parts supplyer - located in Sweeden, wery close to where I live in Denmark - nice !
URL: http://user.tninet.se/~vhw129w/mt_audio_design/index.htm
Thanx again for the replys, I will start investigating
Cheers !
Hans Houmøller
Neon power supply light for ESL63
I have owned two sets of FREDs and have experienced the following problems on both sets.
Sound level drops dramtically on one speaker.
The cause in both cases were one or more high voltage diodes in the power supply became conductive and so the total high voltage was reduced.
There is a small board which multiplies the DC voltage by a factor of about 6 times.
It does this in steps with a capacitor and diode for each step.
If a diode goes you lose a step and you lose very high voltage.
Remove the bottom metal plate via about 10 screws on both ESL63s.
Power the FREDS up without any amplifier connected.
There is a little neon bulb on a little daughter board which can be seen if you look up from underneath.
If the power supply is functioning properly the neon bulb will blink every second or so. If the bulb does not go off you have blown a diode or diodes. The bulbs of both speakers should blink at the same rate.
The high voltage diodes are very cheap. $5.00 will get you enough for both speakers.
The board on which they sit can easily be removed by disconnecting the two small wires from the high voltage transformer and the very high voltage wire to the output to the mylar panels. Two small Phillips head bolts hold the board to the frame. The diodes are potted in wax which can easily be melted away and then replaced.
Good luck
I have owned two sets of FREDs and have experienced the following problems on both sets.
Sound level drops dramtically on one speaker.
The cause in both cases were one or more high voltage diodes in the power supply became conductive and so the total high voltage was reduced.
There is a small board which multiplies the DC voltage by a factor of about 6 times.
It does this in steps with a capacitor and diode for each step.
If a diode goes you lose a step and you lose very high voltage.
Remove the bottom metal plate via about 10 screws on both ESL63s.
Power the FREDS up without any amplifier connected.
There is a little neon bulb on a little daughter board which can be seen if you look up from underneath.
If the power supply is functioning properly the neon bulb will blink every second or so. If the bulb does not go off you have blown a diode or diodes. The bulbs of both speakers should blink at the same rate.
The high voltage diodes are very cheap. $5.00 will get you enough for both speakers.
The board on which they sit can easily be removed by disconnecting the two small wires from the high voltage transformer and the very high voltage wire to the output to the mylar panels. Two small Phillips head bolts hold the board to the frame. The diodes are potted in wax which can easily be melted away and then replaced.
Good luck
ESL high voltage
The panels generate about 6,000 volts DC however the current is minimal. A television set is way way more leathal.
I have inadvertantly touched the high voltage leads and it is not a pleasant feeling but O.K. It is like getting a shock from shuffling your feet across a rug and then touching something conductive.
If you are going to work on your speakers unplug them for a day to let the capacitors discharge. They are really very safe and very well made.
The panels generate about 6,000 volts DC however the current is minimal. A television set is way way more leathal.
I have inadvertantly touched the high voltage leads and it is not a pleasant feeling but O.K. It is like getting a shock from shuffling your feet across a rug and then touching something conductive.
If you are going to work on your speakers unplug them for a day to let the capacitors discharge. They are really very safe and very well made.
Hi Hans,
I live in the Netherlands and have a friend that has two type of Mylar foil, 4 and 6 micron and can send it to you by mail. The 4 micron is 80cm wide and the 6 micron is 100cm wide! Both original Dupont Mylar.(transparent) For more information take a look at www.eslcircuit.nl at DIY and materials!
Good luck! I know you will succeed, cause he even send foil and coating to guys in china, polland etc.
AF.
Martin-Jan Dijkstra
Name: Martin-Jan Dijkstra
E-mail: mj-dijkstra@zonnet.nl
Homepage:
Address: Netherlands
Tel:
Fax:
In our search for the perfect membrane for ESLs, we were able to get custom made, tensilized Mylar. We have two different types of Mylar®:
Mylar® , thickness: 4 micron, width: 80 cm
Mylar®, thickness: 6 micron, width 100 cm
This Mylar® can easily be coated with our specially developed high resistance and fully transparent coating.
Prices
Product Price
Mylar® 4 micron € 3,50 /meter
Mylar® 6 micron € 3,00 /meter
Coating € 11,50 /100 ml
Package and transfer: € 7,00 within the Netherlands. Outside the Netherlands but within Europe: € 17,00
http://www.audiocircuit.com/9041-esl-circuit/9041IMAI-DI.htm
I live in the Netherlands and have a friend that has two type of Mylar foil, 4 and 6 micron and can send it to you by mail. The 4 micron is 80cm wide and the 6 micron is 100cm wide! Both original Dupont Mylar.(transparent) For more information take a look at www.eslcircuit.nl at DIY and materials!
Good luck! I know you will succeed, cause he even send foil and coating to guys in china, polland etc.
AF.
Martin-Jan Dijkstra
Name: Martin-Jan Dijkstra
E-mail: mj-dijkstra@zonnet.nl
Homepage:
Address: Netherlands
Tel:
Fax:
In our search for the perfect membrane for ESLs, we were able to get custom made, tensilized Mylar. We have two different types of Mylar®:
Mylar® , thickness: 4 micron, width: 80 cm
Mylar®, thickness: 6 micron, width 100 cm
This Mylar® can easily be coated with our specially developed high resistance and fully transparent coating.
Prices
Product Price
Mylar® 4 micron € 3,50 /meter
Mylar® 6 micron € 3,00 /meter
Coating € 11,50 /100 ml
Package and transfer: € 7,00 within the Netherlands. Outside the Netherlands but within Europe: € 17,00
http://www.audiocircuit.com/9041-esl-circuit/9041IMAI-DI.htm
Rescue of the Quad....
Hi Audiofanatic & Ignatz
Thnx for the replys - seems that testing the High Voltage Diodes will be a good place to start, so I will try that soon.
I have just come home from a prolonged vacation in the french alpes, so i have not had the time to work on the speakers before now.
Ignatz - for 6 KV, what should the diodes have as a safe rating - anything above ??
Audiofanatic - will the eslcirciut bee up again ??
Thanx again for your time.....
Cheers !
Hans
Hi Audiofanatic & Ignatz
Thnx for the replys - seems that testing the High Voltage Diodes will be a good place to start, so I will try that soon.
I have just come home from a prolonged vacation in the french alpes, so i have not had the time to work on the speakers before now.
Ignatz - for 6 KV, what should the diodes have as a safe rating - anything above ??
Audiofanatic - will the eslcirciut bee up again ??
Thanx again for your time.....
Cheers !
Hans
Click over to:
http://www.quadesl.com/quad_main.shtml
he has a good write up about how to referb the diodes. Look under the "references" section and then "my Rectifier Block Design". He is using 1N4007 diodes.
I will need to do mine soon.
http://www.quadesl.com/quad_main.shtml
he has a good write up about how to referb the diodes. Look under the "references" section and then "my Rectifier Block Design". He is using 1N4007 diodes.
I will need to do mine soon.
high voltage diode type
I replaced 10 of the stock diodes with the following in my two sets of ESL63s.
Diodes Inc.
High Voltage Fast Recovery A567438
I also see another part number which is 20 E R3000F.
I still have 5 spares.
These diodes have been working great since their installation about 10 years ago. They are much smaller in size than the original stock diode.
I think any high voltage diode will work because the diodes are in series so the maximum voltage they see is about 1,000 volts rather than the full 6,000 volts to panels.
Good luck
I replaced 10 of the stock diodes with the following in my two sets of ESL63s.
Diodes Inc.
High Voltage Fast Recovery A567438
I also see another part number which is 20 E R3000F.
I still have 5 spares.
These diodes have been working great since their installation about 10 years ago. They are much smaller in size than the original stock diode.
I think any high voltage diode will work because the diodes are in series so the maximum voltage they see is about 1,000 volts rather than the full 6,000 volts to panels.
Good luck
High voltage diodes
Hi Ignatz
Ok, I have searched my local dealers website, and have come up with this diode:
25BY584 BY584 ENSRETTERDIODE 1.8KV/85mA
It is 1800volts, and 0,085A - this should be enough current as well as voltage (when in series) ?
I take that the diodes that should be changed is 8 pr. speaker, named D3-D10 on this drawing:
http://www.quadesl.com/schematics/quad63_schematic.gif
Cheers !
/Hans
Hi Ignatz
Ok, I have searched my local dealers website, and have come up with this diode:
25BY584 BY584 ENSRETTERDIODE 1.8KV/85mA
It is 1800volts, and 0,085A - this should be enough current as well as voltage (when in series) ?
I take that the diodes that should be changed is 8 pr. speaker, named D3-D10 on this drawing:
http://www.quadesl.com/schematics/quad63_schematic.gif
Cheers !
/Hans
High voltage diodes
Buhl:
Your choice of diode should be O.K. as the amount of current required is very very low. In fact you will not be able to measure the voltage in this circuit with a normal high quality metre as it will drain the small current off immediately.
If I remember correctly I do not think you can measure whether the diodes are O.K. with a metre unless you put a bit of high voltage through them. I replaced all 8 at once.
The resolution on your schematic is very poor.
I can not make out any text, but I think you have the correct location of the diodes.
Replace the diodes which run in series between the 4 diode bridge which connects to the HV transformer the other end which connects to the neon bulb.
There should be 8 high voltage capcitors as well, one for each diode.
You might also want to check the four diodes in the bridge.
I have never had a problem with these diodes.
Place the little daughter board in a tin foil pan and gently heat it so that the wax just starts to melt. Then you will have the wax to re-pot the board.
Good Luck
Buhl:
Your choice of diode should be O.K. as the amount of current required is very very low. In fact you will not be able to measure the voltage in this circuit with a normal high quality metre as it will drain the small current off immediately.
If I remember correctly I do not think you can measure whether the diodes are O.K. with a metre unless you put a bit of high voltage through them. I replaced all 8 at once.
The resolution on your schematic is very poor.
I can not make out any text, but I think you have the correct location of the diodes.
Replace the diodes which run in series between the 4 diode bridge which connects to the HV transformer the other end which connects to the neon bulb.
There should be 8 high voltage capcitors as well, one for each diode.
You might also want to check the four diodes in the bridge.
I have never had a problem with these diodes.
Place the little daughter board in a tin foil pan and gently heat it so that the wax just starts to melt. Then you will have the wax to re-pot the board.
Good Luck
Diode search
Ignatz,
Thanks for the info on diagnosing dead diodes in a Quad ESL-63. I denfinitely have an "always on" neon lamp on the EHT board.
Now I'm having a hard time trying to find replacement diodes.
The Service Manual specifies 1AV30 (1JK30) diodes. The only place I can find these online is a UK Vendor. I'd definitely prefer a U.S. vendor.
On http://www.quadesl.com/quad_ref.shtml Sheldon Stokes specifies 1N4007 diodes on his New rectifier board. But that is a different circuit design with a different number of diodes. So, I don't know if the 1N4007 is a suitable replacement.
I've also tried to find the diodes suggested in other posts, but I'm getting a little tired of "user-surly" electronics parts websites.
Does anyone have the specs for a 1AV30 diode, and/or know the design requirements for the diode in the original EHT board?
Thanks,
Tim
Ignatz,
Thanks for the info on diagnosing dead diodes in a Quad ESL-63. I denfinitely have an "always on" neon lamp on the EHT board.
Now I'm having a hard time trying to find replacement diodes.
The Service Manual specifies 1AV30 (1JK30) diodes. The only place I can find these online is a UK Vendor. I'd definitely prefer a U.S. vendor.
On http://www.quadesl.com/quad_ref.shtml Sheldon Stokes specifies 1N4007 diodes on his New rectifier board. But that is a different circuit design with a different number of diodes. So, I don't know if the 1N4007 is a suitable replacement.
I've also tried to find the diodes suggested in other posts, but I'm getting a little tired of "user-surly" electronics parts websites.
Does anyone have the specs for a 1AV30 diode, and/or know the design requirements for the diode in the original EHT board?
Thanks,
Tim
Still problems
Now, I have changed the high voltage diodes on the voltage multiplier board, but there are still difference in sound level and frequency, one of them beeing loower, and with less treble.
I have tried to check for dead panels, even with a vacumcleaner tube at my ear, so I can narrow the source, but all panels seem to work.
The flash diode goes off every 5-7 sec. on the faulty speaker, and about every second on the "good " one.
One mentioned something about cleaning the panels with a brush on the vacumcleaner - is this done without disassembling the panels ?
How about bad solderings ? - i mean, there are higt frequency, but not as much as the other - could it be that some of the rings does not get hte signal from the delayboard ?
Cheers !
Hans Houmøller
Now, I have changed the high voltage diodes on the voltage multiplier board, but there are still difference in sound level and frequency, one of them beeing loower, and with less treble.
I have tried to check for dead panels, even with a vacumcleaner tube at my ear, so I can narrow the source, but all panels seem to work.
The flash diode goes off every 5-7 sec. on the faulty speaker, and about every second on the "good " one.
One mentioned something about cleaning the panels with a brush on the vacumcleaner - is this done without disassembling the panels ?
How about bad solderings ? - i mean, there are higt frequency, but not as much as the other - could it be that some of the rings does not get hte signal from the delayboard ?
Cheers !
Hans Houmøller
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