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Old 23rd November 2006, 12:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: Jung regulator

Quote:
Originally posted by mitwrong
As another member just pointed out his schematic which the ccs is replaced by a resistor, and the op-amp is replaced by 709. of cause, we haven't done this experiment, we can't say any thing on it.
I'm afraid you misunderstand a bit. My example was anno 1977 and Mr. Jung/Didden was an example of an improved verison. Not the other way around. I think examine a 709 is rather pointless.
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Old 23rd November 2006, 02:42 PM   #32
AndrewT is online now AndrewT  Scotland
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Default Re: Jung Super Regulator

Hi Mit,
Quote:
Originally posted by mitwrong
....Analyze the schematic provided, the output tr. better replaced by a darling ton. and the ccs 2n5087 is redundancy, Just a single resistor could do the job fine. it only provides the bias current to drive the output stage, due to an IC is employed for error amp, also U use a LM317 for pre-reg. this psu is good for most application, more than enough as a bench supply. IC is better to choose a high slew rate, then any change of the output voltage can immediately corrected.

Your IC took the voltage from the output side is not advised, it better get the voltage from a regulated source.......
AND
Quote:
Originally posted by mitwrong
........I was a psu designer.....
Now completely the opposite.
Quote:
Originally posted by mitwrong
Those points we suggested are base on theoretical background, and experiences...............his schematic which the ccs is replaced by a resistor, and the op-amp is replaced by 709. of cause, we haven't done this experiment, we can't say any thing on it. We suggested this item several threads before, due to we have seen this type of design several times. but this is the first time I saw design using ccs.
Are you TELLING Janneman how to design it better or ASKING how it works and IF there MAY be room for improvement?
You came barging in telling everyone this and that and how it will be better and why parts were redundant.
Keep in mind readers of all levels of expertise read your posts and some may infer from your language that you know what you claim to understand.
Then when we probe you crawl out and admit you know nothing. In the meantime someone may have picked up the advice in your first post and gone and---well how bad can it get?

Make up your mind!
Are you an expert or student?
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Old 23rd November 2006, 05:24 PM   #33
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
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No need to being rude, Andrew. Why don't you wait and see if Mr. mitwrong will have something to show us later on. Every design can be improved and the super regulator is no exception.
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Old 23rd November 2006, 05:37 PM   #34
AndrewT is online now AndrewT  Scotland
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I am being rude.
Mit made out HE was the EXPERT and told us all how to do it and what bits to miss out.

My last post compared his first with his last and suddenly we see he has built nothing like it and even admits that it is beyond his experience.

That annoys me.

I hope he got the message.

I and many others go to some lengths to explain how something works, we expect newcomers to join us and we provide help and advice willingly.

I too am a relative newcomer & I get help, repeatedly. I appreciate all those efforts.

Mit could do with modifying his attitude, or I'll be rude again.
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Old 23rd November 2006, 06:05 PM   #35
SY is offline SY  United States
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Rudeness is not acceptable. It is OK to criticize ideas, not other members.
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Old 23rd November 2006, 11:30 PM   #36
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Default Jung reg

Andrew T, and other members:

No need to care who I am, I never said I am an expert, as I replied in post 26, I gave out was " SUGGESTION ", not order! if you trust the suggestion, try it, this is FORUM, is not in court, this place is for discussion, may have arguments, anybody can give suggestion on here, right?
Is that any suggestion or ideas given in MUST BE CORRECT OR ACCURATE? I think everybody may have mistake, I am not an exception. Every body has his own knowledge, what happen if he got his knowledge out dated, or with mistake. You guys will blame him for it? is it fair? I think Mr. Andrew is a teacher, in school, is that teacher always right? no mistake at all? If a teacher has done something wrong or mistake in teaching, will the education board take immediately action?
On post 26, I already say " sorry " due to my suggestion, You guys don't know how to " forgive ". If I still see some message pin point on me, I will never show up at this forum again.





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Old 24th November 2006, 12:21 AM   #37
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Default Responsibility

Mr. SY ( moderator }

One thing I want to make clarify, is anybody give in " SUGGESTIONS ' must be accurate and correct, must have evidence, or have done the test or experiment ahead on it? How about by knowledge, or passed experience?
Is it possible to have done the test, or certified the circuitry before provide " SUGGESTION ".
In other forum, that is a place where members exchange their ideas and discuss on everything. How about here? ( SAY WITH RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY)
Another thing I wanted to clarify. I am an Asian, not that good in English, may be I used incorrect wordings, every time when I reply a post, there must be a dictionary I consulted with. That's why I join in this forum to learn Technical and English. I am a new member, not that clear about the rules although I have read thru.



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Old 24th November 2006, 12:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi Mit,
this Forum is a place for arguing.
It's the traditional and expected way we exchange views.

That way some may come to change their view for better or worse or to expand one's knowledge.

Long may the arguments continue!

Hi, Lads and Gents:

" DOES IT MAKE ME CONFUSE "




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Old 3rd December 2006, 07:06 PM   #39
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Hi everyone, Walt, Jan, et al;

I think this is my first post here, I hope you will be tolerant of my really dumb questions, I am a student with no pretenses whatsoever of more than the most rudimentary knowledge. Watching me trace a circuit with my fingers is kinda like Math teachers watch a kid count on his fingers. I will try hard, however, to keep my questions as few as possible and comments scarce.

The Jung Super Regulator has me fascinated and impressed, I've spent two days now going through the circuit and I think I understand all of it except the CCS part, always a thorn in my paw, and I am about to build it up for a 6GM8 25 Volt guitar preamp aikido-incorporated project I'm working on.

I have three questions:

My first, big $64,000 question is this: what about using a MOSFET for the pass device?

I realize the driver circuitry would undoubtedly have to change....which I would not know how to do.

My desire to use a MOSFET rather than a transistor is admittedly irrational and emotional; I have been told that MOSFET'S are closer to tubes, and since the pass device is unavoidably well within the audio path of the amp, I would much rather the pass device be a tube - but needing at least 50 mA at 25 V, a tube as pass device doesn't seem, even to me, practical.

So, would anyone humor me with info on how to use a MOSFET instead, OR if using a MOSFET instead is a really bone-head idea, then I would appreciate knowing it and finding out why.

2nd big $64,000 question: if I stick with the design as-is, would someone mind guiding me to the "best" version, using opamps that are readily available from digikey?

3rd and final: why are the two opamps paralleled? Is it simply to source enough current for the driver stage?

best regards to all, charles
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Old 3rd December 2006, 07:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by radianceaudio
Hi everyone, Walt, Jan, et al;

I think this is my first post here, I hope you will be tolerant of my really dumb questions, I am a student with no pretenses whatsoever of more than the most rudimentary knowledge. Watching me trace a circuit with my fingers is kinda like Math teachers watch a kid count on his fingers. I will try hard, however, to keep my questions as few as possible and comments scarce.

The Jung Super Regulator has me fascinated and impressed, I've spent two days now going through the circuit and I think I understand all of it except the CCS part, always a thorn in my paw, and I am about to build it up for a 6GM8 25 Volt guitar preamp aikido-incorporated project I'm working on.

I have three questions:

My first, big $64,000 question is this: what about using a MOSFET for the pass device?

I realize the driver circuitry would undoubtedly have to change....which I would not know how to do.

My desire to use a MOSFET rather than a transistor is admittedly irrational and emotional; I have been told that MOSFET'S are closer to tubes, and since the pass device is unavoidably well within the audio path of the amp, I would much rather the pass device be a tube - but needing at least 50 mA at 25 V, a tube as pass device doesn't seem, even to me, practical.

So, would anyone humor me with info on how to use a MOSFET instead, OR if using a MOSFET instead is a really bone-head idea, then I would appreciate knowing it and finding out why.

2nd big $64,000 question: if I stick with the design as-is, would someone mind guiding me to the "best" version, using opamps that are readily available from digikey?

3rd and final: why are the two opamps paralleled? Is it simply to source enough current for the driver stage?

best regards to all, charles
Hi Charles,

Welcome to the forum! Hope you like it here.

That ccs is not a mystery. Do you understand that it sets up a constant current that feeds the base of the pass transistor? That the opamp siphons off any part of this constant current that is too much for the load current and that would drive up the output voltage?

So, about the mosfet. Yes, you can do it. I am not an expert in mosfets, but off the bat I see two issues:

- you will more voltage between the rectified 'raw' DC and the output voltage of the reg (the in/out difference) because the mosfet needs more drive voltage than the bjt which needs basically 0.65 V Vbe or so. On the other hand, there are mosfets that work with 3 or 4 V between gate and source so the delta is not that much and it can anyway be taken care off with enough rectified voltage. I guess you want 25VDC regulated output? So you would want at least 30VDC input or a transformer that gives off some 20VAC (or 20 x 20VAC centertapped).

- a mosfet has less gain/transconductance than a bjt, so the total loop gain available for the control loop is less with a mosfet so the measured performance will be not as good. Things like Zout, ripple rejection, rejection of ripple impressed by the load, will be up to 10 times worse. So, whatever 'magic' the mosfet brings to the circuit has to offset this. I don't know how this all would be audible.

The matter of opamps is whatever you like. I also read the reports that this or that opamp sounds more this or that, honestly I take that with a big bag of salt, but precisiely because this is all so subjective my or anybody's opinion can be opposite to your opinion. My only advice would be to stay away from the AD797 as it is prone to instability here.

Opamps paralleled: There are no opamps paralleled in this circuit. What you may have seen is peranders' circuit board for this reg where you see two different patterns for two types of opamps; you can use either one but of course NOT both at the same time.

Cheers,

Jan Didden
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