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Old 30th September 2006, 02:04 AM   #1
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Default AC Filtering question

First i know anything i do mains related can be harmful, kill me, damage my house, famaly, etc.....

i have some filterconcepts 3B60 LF 3X60A ac filters, these units are for 3phase power. They have line A-B-C-Neutral and ground pins on input. A-B-C-Neutral ouputs. (see pic)

i have read thru Jon_Risch's site and his diy filter.

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm

I believe this is the same basic design?

so heres where the sparks fly!

If i take my 115volt ac and connect neutral to neutral , earth to earth and hot to the 3 terminals A-B-C do i get 3 filtered outputs? or alot of smoke? lol

i was thinking of using a small transformer to put out 12volts Ac and testing this idea.

i have insurance, great medical plan, and understanding wife so i think i about ready to try some AC projects. (balanced/isolation/etc)
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Old 30th September 2006, 06:25 AM   #2
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Default first ...

First of all: you won't hurt this device by running at lower voltage.

You can connect "ordinary" household power thusly:

L1/A = +/- 120 VAC, hot wire, usually the black wire (USA)

N = Common wire, almost always the white wire (USA)

Gnd symbol = Ground wire, sometimes bare wire, sometimes green.

(Unfortunately you won't be able to use the other connections ... unless you want to do both phases of your household power L1/A & L/B ... but this is not recommended as this circuit was designed to filter 3 phases, not 2 ... although it will do an OK job on two (split) phases.)

....

" ... If i take my 115volt ac and connect neutral to neutral , earth to earth and hot to the 3 terminals A-B-C do i get 3 filtered outputs? or alot of smoke? ..."

No smoke, it just won't filter very well ... Best to just use 115 VAC to L1/A, neutral to neutral, earth ground to earth ground ... and leave the rest alone.
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Old 30th September 2006, 07:43 AM   #3
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you can see in this new pic that it appears to have the same value filters on all three lines. is it possible that all three of these lines are filtered the same: and adding a bus bar across them would be three filtered lines?

if not these will soon be dumped into the Ebay pile.
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Old 1st October 2006, 04:35 AM   #4
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I'm sure the values of the components were specifically chosen to create a given filter, paralleling them would change how the filter works.

I would suggest as FastEddy has and just use one of the L1/X inputs and its output. Or, you could parallel all three L1/X inputs and use one L1/X output + N for three different loads.
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Old 1st October 2006, 07:56 PM   #5
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Hi,
the filter will work with all three live lines bussed together.
BUT the gound connected capacitors (Y rated) add up to 11nF and paralleling will connect 33nF from live to earth.

If you have any ground connected caps in other equipment your total earth leakage could be a bit high.

Here in the UK we can go as high as 90nF and just stay below leakage limits, but most filters have only 2n2F to earth.
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Old 2nd October 2006, 03:03 PM   #6
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Default No problem-o ...

" ... I would suggest ... just use one of the L1/X inputs and its output. Or, you could parallel all three L1/X inputs and use one L1/X output + N for three different loads. ..."

Door #1 = just use one input / output = standard line filtering of a single power line. (L1/A or L2/B or L3/C only.)

Door #2 = use two for split phase household wiring (both phases), red and black (USA standard colors for hot wires). (L1/A plus L2/B or L2/B and L3/C.)

Door #3 = use all three inputs & outputs in parallel for a single phase of household power = you stand the chance of filtering some of the actual power, the power close to the power line frequencies (useful harmonics of ~60 Hertz) = generates some added heat = wastes power = distrotion of the power sign wave = ... ultimately making the power supply that is connected to this work a little harder & thus wasting more power = adding more heat .... (This is a bit of an exageration, but suffice to say that using all the filtration available in parallel will lower the frequency of the filter(s) ... the rolloff curve / knee point ... and do possibly more harm than good.)

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Old 2nd October 2006, 09:03 PM   #7
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thank you all for your time.

fasteddy i promise my head isnt as thick as you might expect. i have no experience with this application, so i asked questions. i landed these units for nothing almost and figured they could be useful in my diy audio system. looking at the schematic on the unit shows 3 indentical lines of filter, and to a rookie you think three filtered lines.

in your last post would option 2 be any better? or just stay with option1.
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Old 2nd October 2006, 09:23 PM   #8
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Default If I were doing it, I would use ...

... option #2 ... filtering both phases of my household power. ( Door #2 = use two for split phase household wiring (both phases), red and black (USA standard colors for hot wires). (L1/A plus L2/B or L2/B and L3/C.) )

OR!!! since this is an industrial strength filter, it is possible to install it inside the main or sub panel and filter several different power runs into you house ... BUT, unless you have had experience as a real, working electrician and you are completely familiar with the inside of household or commercial main breaker panel and sub panel circuit breaker boxes, DON'T Do It = zzzzzttttt ...

Sorry to complicate your situation with so many choices, but in reality without spending a lot of time and money, the first option is probably your best (using L1/A and N / Netural plus ground (Earth) connections is you best choice, leaving the other connections out of the circuit).
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Old 2nd October 2006, 11:51 PM   #9
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no i had planned to use these (2xfilters) as the input to my audio system. option 2 sounds good.

as far as the experienced electrician part-----im not

however i have a large network of friends: one who installs/repairs massive air compressors, a top notch carpenter/trim contractor, a machine shop owner, a GREAT welder, etc, etc

this wouldnt be a total diy job. all work would have a supervisor , which is how i learn.

thanks again,

steve
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Old 3rd October 2006, 03:13 AM   #10
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Default Gosh !!

" ... a large network of friends: one who installs/repairs massive air compressors, a top notch carpenter/trim contractor, a machine shop owner, a GREAT welder ..."

Go for it ... it will work, filtering two power lines at once ...

After you finish this, maybe we should build something really big !!

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