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Old 11th March 2006, 07:48 PM   #31
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elso Kwak
Tell that to Stradivarius and Johannes Ruckers Eva!
They wouldn't have gained any reputation if they hadn't been able to get repeatable results through a very scientific mind, that allowed them to understand very well what they were doing through experimentation.

Are you trying to compare that with a bunch of audiophiles throwing fashionable capacitors at their gear without knowing how to bias a transistor (or a tube for that matter)? It's ridiculous. They neither know what they are doing nor they will ever know or reach any solid criteria. Not to mention that after three months they will have already thrown away their current equipment (with all the non-sense mods inside) and bought new more fashionable stuff.

Remember that for any Stradivarius-like genius we got, there were also thousands of gossip people that were never able to get repeatable results, and though they probably made a lot of money by selling snake oil and telling nice stories, nobody remembers them now.

Do I have to mention that Beethoven composed nice music, just by mind, while he was *deaf*? In fact, a very powerful mind is required in order to filter out the remarkable amounts of false information that out hearing system gathers. It's sad but we have to accept that our hearing lacks a lot of precision and is very poor in comparison with other species (that can precisely locate and perceive things happening thousands of meters away). By far, our most precise sense is sight (and of course we have a lot of thinking power, altough we seldom use it).
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Old 13th March 2006, 07:17 PM   #32
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Lesson to learn: If you venture into this forum, you need to be ready for Eva's scrutiny.

In all fairness to those trying to "improve" their gear by replacing each component with a more expensive version, you need to notice that there are a lot of commercial interests out there perpetuating this cult.

And the number of these commercial parties is growing. They grow by inventing a new pseudo-science, and then nourishing the ego of their cult members by reassuring them that they have understood this science.
It's a way for someone to feel they excel at something which they would not be able to understand if objectivity were enforced.

It's all ego for the cult member. And it's all money for the cult leader. Two very strong market driving forces.

You'll often see some of those cult leaders blurt out some samples of subjective logic: "...I like a diode at this position...", or "...I don't like high-value capacitors here..."

If they were ever in the surgical intensive care ward of a hospital, I hope they will accept a doctor who throws out all the monitoring equipment, and starts using his nose and his ear to decide how to treat the dying patient.

Andy
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Old 13th March 2006, 07:50 PM   #33
poobah is offline poobah  United States
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Interesting that someone brings up Stradivarius. Many people search and search for his "secret".

It is generally agreed that the violins he built later in life were the best. Years and years of perfecting a craft and making steady and methodic changes.

Those who have achieved similar results in the modern day have said that Stradivarious had no secret (no magic capacitor). They say that his "secret" was merely doing everything right... absolutely everything. He knew and understood every aspect of his craft thoroughly.

Sounds like science...

Keep in mind... you never fully know the sound of a violin until it is assembled... and it is not easy to reverse assembly and correct prior mistakes. I imagine he was highly motivated to make violins and not firewood.

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Old 13th March 2006, 08:32 PM   #34
forr is offline forr  France
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Poobah,

---Those who have achieved similar results in the modern day have said that Stradivarious had no secret (no magic capacitor). They say that his "secret" was merely doing everything right... absolutely everything. He knew and understood every aspect of his craft thoroughly.---

It reminds me Andrei Tarkovski's film "Andrei Roublev".
Its last part shows the making of a huge bell under the orders of a boy. He pretends to possess the "know how" from his father who just died. I won't tell the end of the story.

Hi Poobah,
In an other thread, Quasi suggested you needed a hair-cut. I've seen you have been to the hair dresser. But not for the intended aim.

regards ~~~~ Forr

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Old 13th March 2006, 08:37 PM   #35
poobah is offline poobah  United States
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Thank you for noticing Forr. I had my hair "styled" by a professional.

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Old 13th March 2006, 08:39 PM   #36
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Lightbulb Voicing parts

There is nothing wrong with voicing parts in your equipment. Even when these parts are boutique quality.......
I do it all the time with transistors, FETs, caps, resistors.......


PS. the secret of Stadivarius, Johannes Ruckers and other ancient instrument builders.......? Good listening ability! Seldom found with electronic engineers; hahaha now Jocko, Charly Hansen and others are rolling over me!
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Old 13th March 2006, 10:27 PM   #37
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Default Re: Voicing parts

Quote:
Originally posted by Elso Kwak

... the secret of Stadivarius, Johannes Ruckers and other ancient instrument builders.......? Good listening ability! Seldom found with electronic engineers; hahaha now Jocko, Charly Hansen and others are rolling over me!
[/B]
It is not clear that Stradivarius' product was only a result of listening ability, or that today's subjectivist afficionados share any skills with the violin maker.

The fact that one bases decisions on what they hear (or think they hear) does not demonstrate good listening ability. Not any more than using your head to hammer a nail into the wall would demonstrate good thinking ability.

Many may have had good listening ability in Stradivarius' days, and did not produce violins.
Having good listening ability does not, unfortunately allow us to manufacture a speaker, or a violin, or a trombone for that matter.

You are attempting to attribute subjectivity to someone who may have used a high level of objectivity in implementing his craft. Stradivarius may have liked to use some today's sophisticated equipment, if he were given the chance. Since he is not available for comment, none of us can really say for sure.
The Stradivarius analogy is probably not very relevant.

Everyone has a baggage of well-rehearsed analogies to support their own opinions and beliefs.

As for engineers lacking listening skills, it is not clear where this fact comes from, of if it is even a fact.

When you hear someone praise fast-recovery rectifiers because they (the TO220 case) "are cool looking", the form-over-function credo stares you in the face. Noone should care how a diode looks, *unless* they intend to show it to friends...

( EGO !!! )

Andy
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Old 14th March 2006, 12:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackinnj


putting a 10nF cap across a diode just lowers the resonant frequency of the "tank" circuit --
I should add (to my own post) that when you lower the resonant frequency of the tank circuit you also DECREASE the voltage spike that the diode will see as a result of the transformer's leakage inductance --
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Old 14th March 2006, 01:15 PM   #39
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Stradivarius - not two pieces off wood are alike and "he" was good at selecting the right wood and to judge how thick or thin it should be - and probably wood was better at that time

true art and craftmanship
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Old 15th March 2006, 09:07 AM   #40
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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What happened to the topic?
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regards Andrew T.
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