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Old 21st February 2006, 08:20 AM   #1
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Question wanting to get into smps designing and building

Hey guys.

I'v caught myself sitting on my *** for to long, doing nothing.

for some time now i'v been loosing faith in the power waisting, overkill side of audio engineering, like gigant power burning class A amps, massive oversized transformer powersuplies and such. My interest has shifted to the more efficient, smart, but more complicated side of audio, like class D amps, dacs and smtp's.

as you can undoubtly guess i'm needing the final kick-in-*** to get moving into this field of DIY. i'v been googeling around, and looking in the forum for some simple ways to get started, but havent found the final extra to get me going, to re.
i was hoping some of you may have some links or such for me so i can start to explore this side of the pond.

my first project on this i was hoping to make a small 2-3 amp smps fron 230 to 12v, hoping to gain the final bit of overall understanding that i lack. i get the basics of trafo efficency rising proportional with frequency, up to the point of non-practicality, i altso have some understanding of general electronics, having buildt a gainclone or two, playing with tubes a bit, and designed and buildt a power\pre system microcontrolled as such. (including my "level of understanding so you hopefully will se better what i'm looking for.)

i would altso like to make use of scrap components as far as i can, having access to tons of such through school and work, and very limited monetary recources. i have access to lots of computer psu's, and smtp's from a lot of other appliences in general.

thanks
-Marius
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Old 21st February 2006, 09:13 AM   #2
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Start with a 12V powered SMPS. A mains driven one is too dangerous for a beginner - it has over 300V DC present for a start. Look at the ESP website, theres a suitable project on there.
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Old 21st February 2006, 01:49 PM   #3
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richie00boy, i'm constantly fixing mains powers at work and school, so i dont see that as a valid argument, and besides, i would like to make something that i can use i dont belive there is any mains powered ones at ESP?
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Old 21st February 2006, 02:27 PM   #4
Did it Himself
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Fixing mains powered stuff and designing stuff for mains power use is a completely different ball game. The ESP site has a 12V design, as I said I wouldn't recommend a mains powered one. Cut your teeth on something safe first

If you insist on offline converter, I contributed to a thread on here sometime in the past 2-6 weeks. You can find out how to take the philosophy of adapting the 12V powered ones to mains in there.
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Old 21st February 2006, 03:19 PM   #5
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Totally different ballgame, yes, but still alike in the respect that the ball remains. a 12v smps just isn't much to cut my teath on, and besides, i dont have the parts required for it.
i'm not an idiot, and i take my precautions, so dont worry about that.
thanks for caring though.

i looked for the post you talked about, but i dont think i found it, if i did then it wasn't what i needed.
I'm not looking for the philosofy, i'm looking for the rock hard and real to put phiposofy into practical use.

still be glad for help

-Marius
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Old 21st February 2006, 03:28 PM   #6
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Well... I will give you some ideas.

How about a half bridge? MOSFET or IGBT?

Voltage control (easy), peak current control (medium) or average current control (complex)?

Single output (easy), dual symmetric outputs for audio (medium) or several outputs (complex)?

Slow switching (30 to 40Khz) and low inherent EMI at the expense of bigger output capacitors and magnetics? or fast switching above 100Khz with small components at the expense of high EMI and high switch dissipation?

Do you feel like messing with an active power factor correction stage?

Also, do you have a mains isolation transformer, a variac and an oscilloscope?
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Old 21st February 2006, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by demogorgon
a 12v smps just isn't much to cut my teath on, and besides, i dont have the parts required for it.
So wrong. It's posts like that that make me say to people trying what you are, to take a step back. You make a 12V and mains SMPS in pretty much the exact same way.

Quote:
Originally posted by demogorgon
i looked for the post you talked about, but i dont think i found it, if i did then it wasn't what i needed.
I'm not looking for the philosofy, i'm looking for the rock hard and real to put phiposofy into practical use.
I did not put the philosophy in the thread, I put exactly what an engineer would need to do it. I suggest you keep looking, or start like I said with something that won't be dangerous. I'd like to build a fast car engine because that's what I want and need, but that doesn't mean I won't build some smaller ones to hone my skills first - it's not wasting time or parts, it's part of the necessary learning process to make sure that the big one doesn't go up in smoke and blow me up in the process.
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Old 21st February 2006, 04:03 PM   #8
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Off-line SMPS are not always operated from mains voltages during development. For example, sometimes (mostly when I'm trying new things) I use only 24V AC or 60V AC from a standard transformer.
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Old 21st February 2006, 06:15 PM   #9
ingrast is offline ingrast  Uruguay
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Default Simple unregulated SMPS

Some years back I built a simple +/- 25V unregulated SMPS still happily humming along.

Being unregulated, it gets as simple as can be to debug and build, and being off line I used regular computer PSU rectifier, electrolytics and transformer. To keep things simple, I used a small inexpensive transformer to power the drive electronics (a quad gate, flip-flop and some transistors) instead of going for self-powered auto starting circuitry. Yet it even has a simple, capable overload protection.

If interested, I can post details, schematic and artwork.

Though I did not have isolation transformer or variac for developement, I should recommend them as safety precautions if possible. Be ready to burn some MOSFETS in the process.

Rodolfo
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Old 21st February 2006, 06:44 PM   #10
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thanks for the replys! i was hoping you'd stop by Eva. what i'v seen from your post's here you seem to be vastly knowledgable on this and other subjects.

Richie, i take it you have some experience in this field as well?
I'l check out tomorrow what the IC in elliots project cost.
if it aint to much, i'l grab one, and start from scratch, without any execsive voltages.

salvages a humongous smps from a canon copymachine today, and there's 6 more of them in storage, waiting to be thrown on the heap.

it looks way good to be thrown away


on a slightly other note, what considerations need to be taken when designing a switchmode from scratch?


I have variac, scope and isotrans at school, but if i ask really nice... they have equipment for 15 students in the sound and picture department where i am, but since everyone is choosing car electronics theese days, we'r only 3 in my class. lots of stuff extra.

Gonna read up a bit, by the looks of it, it's just what i'm looking for
http://www.smpstech.com/
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