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Super Shunt topology: any hints?
Super Shunt topology: any hints?
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Old 8th February 2006, 06:55 PM   #1
Onvinyl is offline Onvinyl
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Default Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Hi,
this thread emerged from here
I recently tried the jung-didden super regulator with a balanced composite omp amp stage and am very pleased with the results, escpecially in the mid and high regions: infinte resolution, it seems.
The bass is a bit soft though (or not enhanced compared to a simple opamp preamp), so I thought, maybe a super-shunt-regulator is the eat&keep solution for my cake....
Jonathan Carr mentioned super shunt sonics here
In the same thread he provided a link to a super shunt, which sadly is dead now.

Yesterday, I found a good source concerning shunt reg

The attachment shows a conceptual sketch to a super-shunt. Is my guessing correct that we need a 'beta-booster' (darlington or the like) between error amp and shunt transistor in order to have sufficient regulation capabilities?
thanks,
Rüdiger
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Old 8th February 2006, 07:45 PM   #2
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...
I forgot: the sensing mechanism has to be swapped, the reference device feeds the inverted input.
Rüdiger
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Old 8th February 2006, 07:51 PM   #3
jan.didden is online now jan.didden  Europe
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Default Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Quote:
Originally posted by Onvinyl
[snip]The attachment shows a conceptual sketch to a super-shunt. Is my guessing correct that we need a 'beta-booster' (darlington or the like) between error amp and shunt transistor in order to have sufficient regulation capabilities?
thanks,
Rüdiger

That really depends on the output capability of the error amp. What you normally do is calculate (or precision guess) the variation in shunt current, divide that by the worst-case transistor beta and then compare that to the error amp output current. With a carefull design the shunt only needs to pass the load current VARIATION (plus some constant bias DC current), not, as in a series reg, the total load current, so its requirements are more relaxed than for the series pass transistor.

Jan Didden
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Old 8th February 2006, 08:16 PM   #4
peranders is offline peranders  Sweden
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Super Shunt topology: any hints?
Default Re: Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Quote:
Originally posted by janneman
With a carefull design the shunt only needs to pass the load current VARIATION (plus some constant bias DC current), not, as in a series reg, the total load current, so its requirements are more relaxed than for the series pass transistor.
Are you really sure about this? Could you develop this statement a bit?
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Old 8th February 2006, 08:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

hi Jan,
Quote:
Originally posted by janneman

With a carefull design the shunt only needs to pass the load current VARIATION (plus some constant bias DC current), not, as in a series reg, the total load current, so its requirements are more relaxed than for the series pass transistor.

Jan Didden

Does that mean, that the shunt does *not* shunt noise, ripple residuals and small variations of the voltage source (psu)? I was thinking -apparently wrong- that the additional Hfe is needed for that (so a fast&high bandwith error amp would be very beneficial in a shunt)?

Would that job left to the CCS that sets the total amount of current (both shunt transistor and load)?
Rüdiger
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Old 8th February 2006, 08:36 PM   #6
jan.didden is online now jan.didden  Europe
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Default Re: Re: Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Quote:
Originally posted by Onvinyl
hi Jan,



Does that mean, that the shunt does *not* shunt noise, ripple residuals and small variations of the voltage source (psu)? I was thinking -apparently wrong- that the additional Hfe is needed for that (so a fast&high bandwith error amp would be very beneficial in a shunt)?

Would that job left to the CCS that sets the total amount of current (both shunt transistor and load)?
Rüdiger

Well, with the series CCS, any load current variation causes a Vout variation and the shunt then draws extra (or less) current to bring the total back so that Vout remains constant. So the shunt really only draws the load current variation.

Noise etc from the input side works similarly: it comes in as noise CURRENT through the CCS and thus adds or subtracts from the load current, and the correction mechanism is than the same as described above.

The input noise current variation is small to begin with, and the shunt can use the very large CCS impedance to work against so that is easily corrected. I think the shunt noise itself is larger; just a hunch.

Edit: The dynamic impedance for the shunt to work against is the CCS in parallel with the load so in both cases the work the shunt has to do is the same.

Jan Didden
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Old 8th February 2006, 09:27 PM   #7
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Super Shunt topology: any hints?
Default Re: Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Quote:
Originally posted by janneman
With a carefull design the shunt only needs to pass the load current VARIATION (plus some constant bias DC current), not, as in a series reg, the total load current, so its requirements are more relaxed than for the series pass transistor.
Compare this:
0 - max current for the shunt regulator
0 - max current for the series regulator

What is the difference?

0 - far from max current for the shunt regulator
0 - far from max current for the series regulator

Relax, in what way? I can't see the difference really.
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Old 8th February 2006, 09:30 PM   #8
peranders is offline peranders  Sweden
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Super Shunt topology: any hints?
Rüdiger, if you want to add some "super" to your regulator you must drive the main shunt transistor with a class A stage. Like the series regulator.
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Old 8th February 2006, 10:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Re: Re: Super Shunt topology: any hints?

Quote:
Originally posted by peranders

Compare this:
0 - max current for the shunt regulator
0 - max current for the series regulator

What is the difference?

0 - far from max current for the shunt regulator
0 - far from max current for the series regulator

Relax, in what way? I can't see the difference really.

Suppose you have a load of 1A, that varies with the signal from 0.8 to 1.2 amp. The series reg has to carry min 0.8, max 1.2 amps.
Same load for shunt, the shunt only has to carry from 0 to 400mA. It is a bit extreme admittedly, but the difference is clear.
Unless you have a fully class B load, then there is no difference, indeed.

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Old 8th February 2006, 10:17 PM   #10
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My turn now, Masao Noro style Super-Shunt Regulator...recommended by JC

Best, a
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