Very good observation. I actually didn't even think about it.
My pictures represented the actual ML380 board.
The picture of the bottom, was actually of ML35 DAC, as it was easier for me to take it off the rack for picture taking. The preamp has fuseless receptacle, but the sticker is exactly the same.
Sorry for confusion.
My pictures represented the actual ML380 board.
The picture of the bottom, was actually of ML35 DAC, as it was easier for me to take it off the rack for picture taking. The preamp has fuseless receptacle, but the sticker is exactly the same.
Sorry for confusion.
It's really simple guys , just give CSA a call and they have publications stating guidelines for design and certification. They list guidelines for track width, spacing, heat rise etc. It's been over 10 yrs for me at those things but I had to get some products approved once. The tests are quite rigorous and all equipment must pass HV testing and/or have HV suppressors to relax track spacing at least that's what I remember.
Metalman, CSA testing used to be in Richmond at least that's the one I used. Rather than quibble about who's right and wrong, CSA, UL and CE have different standards, though some may have been unified recently. I don't trust CE as I've seen too many products I woudn't touch yet they carry CE approval. I don't know if the approvals are false or not.
Just looking at the interesting posts makes me chuckle, just get some documentation and quit the quibbling.
Metalman, CSA testing used to be in Richmond at least that's the one I used. Rather than quibble about who's right and wrong, CSA, UL and CE have different standards, though some may have been unified recently. I don't trust CE as I've seen too many products I woudn't touch yet they carry CE approval. I don't know if the approvals are false or not.
Just looking at the interesting posts makes me chuckle, just get some documentation and quit the quibbling.
http://www.csa-intl.org/onlinestore/GetCatalogDrillDown.asp?Parent=3630
Check the main library if you don't want to spend the money to get them. They may have them. I think CSA also has a library you might be welcome to use and read there.
Check the main library if you don't want to spend the money to get them. They may have them. I think CSA also has a library you might be welcome to use and read there.
Per is right,
Anyone can put a sticker on their box claming that the product is certified - even if it is not.
The problem is that unless it picked out for a random test, no one will ever know that it does not conform to regulations.
Another view cold be to know that your product is ok, not test it, but put the sticker on anyway. This way you save the cost of testing, but at the risk that you missed some of the requered specifications.
Again, this is not specificly about the thread starters company - so save the flamethrowers for later
\Jens
Anyone can put a sticker on their box claming that the product is certified - even if it is not.
The problem is that unless it picked out for a random test, no one will ever know that it does not conform to regulations.
Another view cold be to know that your product is ok, not test it, but put the sticker on anyway. This way you save the cost of testing, but at the risk that you missed some of the requered specifications.
Again, this is not specificly about the thread starters company - so save the flamethrowers for later
\Jens
CSA has several of it's own testing labs across Canada, but there are also many testing facilities that have been certified as CSA authorized testing agencies. The same is true of almost any certification body. I work for a company that holds numerous 3rd party certifications from various agencies including CSA, TuV, JIS, NIST,... In the past Ontario Hydro's labs also had these certifications. They are now privatized as Kinetrics, and I suspect they still hold several of their certifications.
And yes, the majority of the worlds standards bodies have moved towards uniform standards. For the testing agencies the norm now is qualification to ISO 21 in order to be certified.
Actually Jens, in North America at least, placing a certification marking on a product that has not been tested and certified by a recognized testing agency constitutes fraud. Further, selling a product with an illegal certification marking constitutes public endangerment and also carries stiff penalties up to and including jail time.
Nope! Check around and you'll find that you can purchase a typical standard on-line for around $75 each. Hardly onerous anymore.
Peter, if you want some help sorting through what the standard requirements are, where and how much it will cost, and how to go about it, let me know. I do about a dozen or so product certifications a year, not necessarily in this exact arena, but I know my way through the process, and should be able to easily find out where t oget your certificaiton testing done.
Cheers, Metalman
metalman said:
Same thing here, but what if the testing agency never finds out? It's impossible to test all products, and unless the testing agency verifies that a product has not been testet, no one will have a clue. That is all I meant to say.
Testing and approving a product is expensive over here, you are lucky if it is so cheap. Even the standard in paper format is expensive
There is also going to be some differencies between CE approval and UL so make sure to get both tests done.
\Jens
This thread is split off from the Audio Sector commercial thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51381
dave
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51381
dave
I said that standards aren't exactly freeware...
Over here a standard costs 140-170 USD and if you do various things you may need 10-20 different standards.... which they change all time which sometimes looks like a business idea. What I want to say is that you can ruin yourself in buying standards.metalman said:
Old thread but new information (?)
Today I was speaking to some parts suppliers when they said something that surprised me.
They said that any consumer electronic item imported into the US for local sale would require at least a CE certification. BUT the Chinese ( at least some of them ) just slapped on a CE logo without actually being tested !
The subject started when we were talking about Chinese dipped polyester and polypropylene capacitors which are flooding the market. He said they cannot be used in a product as they have no manufacturers markings on it. So no product made using these can pass a certification test. He of course sells Evox-Rifa capacitors !
Is this true ? I thought that the country of origin would make it mandatory to have proper certification before exporting the gadgets. CE certification labs seem to have offices in many countries around the globe.
In addition to this I also suspect that many gadgets sold globally and made in other parts of the world other than China also do not have their products tested . This is because they have so many new products within a short span of time that it looks impossible that they could have tested each and every single design they manufacture.
So what's the actual sory behind this ? Plaster a CE logo if the company knows that it can pass all tests or actually go through the process of testing for the very first design only ?
Are the Chinese the only ones to put on CE labels without actual testing ? IS a CE certification label mandatory ?
Are some of the certification agenices private companies or government run or government authorised ? Do they make profits ?
It's interesting to find that the standards change often with time, as mentioned by our European members.
Quite an interesting topic but ended too quickly ! Can be quite confusing.
Today I was speaking to some parts suppliers when they said something that surprised me.
They said that any consumer electronic item imported into the US for local sale would require at least a CE certification. BUT the Chinese ( at least some of them ) just slapped on a CE logo without actually being tested !
The subject started when we were talking about Chinese dipped polyester and polypropylene capacitors which are flooding the market. He said they cannot be used in a product as they have no manufacturers markings on it. So no product made using these can pass a certification test. He of course sells Evox-Rifa capacitors !
Is this true ? I thought that the country of origin would make it mandatory to have proper certification before exporting the gadgets. CE certification labs seem to have offices in many countries around the globe.
In addition to this I also suspect that many gadgets sold globally and made in other parts of the world other than China also do not have their products tested . This is because they have so many new products within a short span of time that it looks impossible that they could have tested each and every single design they manufacture.
So what's the actual sory behind this ? Plaster a CE logo if the company knows that it can pass all tests or actually go through the process of testing for the very first design only ?
Are the Chinese the only ones to put on CE labels without actual testing ? IS a CE certification label mandatory ?
Are some of the certification agenices private companies or government run or government authorised ? Do they make profits ?
It's interesting to find that the standards change often with time, as mentioned by our European members.
Quite an interesting topic but ended too quickly ! Can be quite confusing.
CE is manufacturer declaration, you can stick the label with or without prior testing. You can leave the test to specialised labs, but you don't need tests at all.
Of course you are held responsible, if it doesn't fit the declared standards and someone recognize this or your product causes something bad.
regards
Of course you are held responsible, if it doesn't fit the declared standards and someone recognize this or your product causes something bad.
regards
I can't see how the makers ID being on components is related in any way to CE certification. Sounds like a white lie to big up his components. The certification is just about safety really and is about the end product. It all falls on the end supplier/maker of the whole unit.
You don't have to do any tests if you can prove without reasonable doubt that the device has been 'well engineered' in accordance with the relevant standards.
It's probably likely that there are some Chinese manufacturers of whole/finished items just putting the logo on without any examination of the standards.
You don't have to do any tests if you can prove without reasonable doubt that the device has been 'well engineered' in accordance with the relevant standards.
It's probably likely that there are some Chinese manufacturers of whole/finished items just putting the logo on without any examination of the standards.
Hi,
Yes it looks like the seller was trying to push his wares.
I just came across an old thread on the forum with thi slink
http://www.cemarking.net/
It does say that CE self certification is legal. However one must make sure that things do really conform to the standards recommended.
This web site offers a free(?) 5 day course on self CE certification !
Very interesting. Is there a catch ?.... if not , then it's VERY interesting !
original thread at : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21067&highlight=
Cheers.
Yes it looks like the seller was trying to push his wares.
I just came across an old thread on the forum with thi slink
http://www.cemarking.net/
It does say that CE self certification is legal. However one must make sure that things do really conform to the standards recommended.
This web site offers a free(?) 5 day course on self CE certification !
Very interesting. Is there a catch ?.... if not , then it's VERY interesting !
original thread at : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21067&highlight=
Cheers.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.