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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
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Old 19th May 2018, 11:53 PM   #111
selfy is offline selfy  Bulgaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Like this:
Thank you, Salas!
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Old 20th May 2018, 06:59 AM   #112
arpagon is offline arpagon  Bulgaria
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Originally Posted by Salas View Post
I see its at the same place as yours. The CCS and the CFP output section are on a same line and between that line and the Vref etc. there's a probe.
Yes, you're right. It was too late and probably I haven't looked carefully at your schematic.
That's why I decided to correct my schematic as close to yours as possible, see picture 1.
However, no matter what I've tried I wasn't able to achieve your results - 11 MHz ULG and 80 deg. PM. My results are shown on the picture 2.
I'm not sure what's the reason for such big inconsistency in the results that's why I'm also attaching the Spice file I used for simulation - may be someone will check it and decide if I'm right or not.
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File Type: png SSL_V1.3-schematic-2.png (103.1 KB, 461 views)
File Type: png SSL_V1.3-OLG-orig-2.png (58.4 KB, 442 views)
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File Type: zip SSL_V1.3.zip (1.9 KB, 26 views)
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Old 20th May 2018, 12:20 PM   #113
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
Of course, thus rightly I couldn't see any difference in our probes placement. But no worries. Its the different drawing styles overall looks that perplexed you, but when looking again and thinking in nodes its clear. I don't have much time these days to go thoroughly through your analysis, but I will have a look at a point because its interesting to find causes. Maybe different semiconductor models (that you don't include). Anyways if I will manage to achieve analysis results approaching yours I will let you know the details. Others are welcome. In any case this line of regs goes several years back and the practical results are widely field tested. The new one is beta tested before introduced also.
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Old 20th May 2018, 01:05 PM   #114
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
By the way a general note. Guys, preferably don't put large electrolytics on an application's regulated rail if you can help it because they dominate any reg's output by imposing their own characteristics. Faster C0G etc. decoupling is more effective and elegant. Tantalums are also nice but they tend to short when they fail in the long run.

Here it is with 100Ω load and a 2200uF/25V BC cap hanging parallel on test leads. The reg not minding the silly situation at all merrily showing a flat line with the scope set at AC input 5mV/100uSec but to paraphrase a known sigline around here "Just because it can, doesn't mean you should"
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Old 20th May 2018, 02:09 PM   #115
arpagon is offline arpagon  Bulgaria
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Yes, the models are peculiar thing. I think I used the standard models which came with LTSpice but nevertheless, I'm attaching them here.
What about capacitors at the output of the regulator, I think we should create schematics which "feel better" when we attach a bigger capacitors at their outputs .
And ... the bigger, the better.
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Old 20th May 2018, 02:31 PM   #116
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
I don't like big capacitors after very low wide flat Zo regs especially because its a shame they hijack the situation to their own spec. Sounding always heavy IMO. In the previous versions we had RC film cap Zobel termination option even just to avoid big chemical caps if we could. In this one such a minimal option can't be had but when we can keep the regulated rail as simple and light as possible in any config I am a fan of such an approach. The reg alone should be able to give the energy needed fast and even to absorb kicks in case its a shunt type. Each one to their own persuasion of course.
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Old 20th May 2018, 03:08 PM   #117
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
When Bode plots get you down, use "Z-Out" and look for "Q"

https://www.picotest.com/articles/Ag...e%20Margin.pdf

Generally, use the lightest load possible.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 07:43 AM   #118
nounouchet is offline nounouchet  France
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
Hi Salas,


Would it be interesting to use a SMPS (for example laptop psu) rather than a transformer + rectifier + filter capacitor for this shunt regulator ?
I see several advantages:
- the cost
- the size
- the ease of deporting the PSU outside the case
- the ability to easily change input voltage for multiple applications



Will the results be as good ?


nounouchet
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Old 23rd May 2018, 12:48 PM   #119
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
The results can be good and its a handy solution but some filtering after the SMPS may prove helpful.
Especially without the Rf+C1 RC filter the SMPS noise maybe it can propagate stronger past the M1 CCS barrier.
Such high frequency complex noises can couple easily enough on the layout and parts inductance anyway.
Depends on what SMPS. How noisy, what kHz its main ripple frequency.
In any case if you got a scope you may check if a specific one propagates any of its noise at the shunt's output or not, to see if you need take extra measures.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 03:59 PM   #120
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Salas SSLV1.3 UltraBiB shunt regulator
P.S.

Have at least 100uF/50V in C1 position with any type of external DC feed. For local decoupling. Don't leave that position completely empty. Else the incoming DC leads inductance will very probably put M1 into oscillation.
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