Voltage sag on heater PSU

bg3009 · 9th January 2013, 09:32 AM

Gents,
I am building a 6AS7 based headphones amp with an LM338k regulated power supply. When I power it up, the heater voltage sags to just 1.2volts. I have checked everything and the unloaded supply reads well at 6.31 volts. But load with even one tube, and the supply simply sags to 1.2 volts. Does anyone have any idea what I could be looking at?

Cheers

DF96 · 9th January 2013, 10:34 AM

Cold heaters take a lot of current. This can send the regulator into over-current (or over-temperature) shutdown mode. Also check that the regulator input voltage does not sag under load and so violate the required in-out voltage.

Robert Kesh · 9th January 2013, 10:56 AM

I've been told to account for at least three times current at cold start, which takes you well over the 5Amps allowed by an LM338.

But it's quite likely to be input voltage dropping, as mentioned above.

You could try setting the regulator to say 8.8V and putting a 1 ohm resistor in series. This means your total resistance will be higher and your current lower over the warm up period. You'll need at least a 7W resistor suitably heat sunk. But then I don't know your reg's input voltage.

You could also try increasing the heat sink on the reg. As maybe it can cope with the brief over current when suitably cooled.

bg3009 · 9th January 2013, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the reply thus. Here's the circuit which I built. The transformer was specified at 50 VA. What I found last night is that this happens even when I just have the driver tube (6922) plugged in. I've got the power regulator on a generous heat sink and it does get quite warm.

Because I power up through a variac, would the ramping up cause a voltage violation issue with the LM 338K?

Cheers

DF96 · 9th January 2013, 06:24 PM

A slow ramp up might mean that the regulator is still struggling with insufficient voltage drop when it hits the current or temperature limit too. Better heatsinking might help, or add a resistor a Robert suggested.

A 50VA transformer will be able to continuously supply about 15-20W DC, so maybe 1.5A.

Preamp · 9th January 2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DF96

A 50VA transformer will be able to continuously supply about 15-20W DC

Where are those numbers from? Sounds interesting...

bg3009 · 9th January 2013, 07:10 PM

I have about 9.3 volts AC on the transformer primary. What concerns me is that even the 6922 by it self does not start. I had the wires twisted although I am using DC heaters. Would this be adding excessive capacitance to the power supply load?

I started just the 6922 heaters without any ramp up but it still refused to go higher then 1.24 or so volts.

Cheers!

tauro0221 · 9th January 2013, 07:36 PM

Hi,
The max current for the LM338 it is 5 amps max. Your transformer can put out 50 VA /9 volts = 5 amps. Now the 6AS7 filament current is 2.5 amps. So your circuit it is within specs for the LM388. What are the size of the capacitors C10,C11 and C12?

Preamp · 9th January 2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg3009

Would this be adding excessive capacitance to the power supply load?

No. Think of big caps with several dozens of 1000uF which are no problem. Twisted wires add a couple of picofarads...

how big (physically) is your transformer?

Preamp · 9th January 2013, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg3009

I have about 9.3 volts AC on the transformer primary.

Secondary, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg3009

(...) but it still refused to go higher then 1.24 or so volts.

Sounds like two diode drops. Did you use 4 diodes for the rectifier or a singe bridge?

9th January 2013, 09:32 AM	#1
bg3009 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2013	Voltage sag on heater PSU Gents, I am building a 6AS7 based headphones amp with an LM338k regulated power supply. When I power it up, the heater voltage sags to just 1.2volts. I have checked everything and the unloaded supply reads well at 6.31 volts. But load with even one tube, and the supply simply sags to 1.2 volts. Does anyone have any idea what I could be looking at? Cheers

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Permissable voltage sag?	johnr66	Power Supplies	14	1st May 2011 06:55 PM
sudden voltage sag	forcijo	Car Audio	12	23rd July 2010 02:43 AM
B+ Voltage sag for AB1 PP	boywonder	Tubes / Valves	34	26th January 2010 01:16 AM
Distortion from heater sag?	hihopes	Tubes / Valves	33	7th October 2007 05:33 PM
Voltage sag	JonnySwitchblade	Solid State	6	8th July 2007 10:20 AM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

9th January 2013, 10:34 AM	#2
DF96 diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2007	Cold heaters take a lot of current. This can send the regulator into over-current (or over-temperature) shutdown mode. Also check that the regulator input voltage does not sag under load and so violate the required in-out voltage.

9th January 2013, 10:56 AM	#3
Robert Kesh diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2012	I've been told to account for at least three times current at cold start, which takes you well over the 5Amps allowed by an LM338. But it's quite likely to be input voltage dropping, as mentioned above. You could try setting the regulator to say 8.8V and putting a 1 ohm resistor in series. This means your total resistance will be higher and your current lower over the warm up period. You'll need at least a 7W resistor suitably heat sunk. But then I don't know your reg's input voltage. You could also try increasing the heat sink on the reg. As maybe it can cope with the brief over current when suitably cooled.

9th January 2013, 06:24 PM	#5
DF96 diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2007	A slow ramp up might mean that the regulator is still struggling with insufficient voltage drop when it hits the current or temperature limit too. Better heatsinking might help, or add a resistor a Robert suggested. A 50VA transformer will be able to continuously supply about 15-20W DC, so maybe 1.5A.

9th January 2013, 07:10 PM	#7
bg3009 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2013	I have about 9.3 volts AC on the transformer primary. What concerns me is that even the 6922 by it self does not start. I had the wires twisted although I am using DC heaters. Would this be adding excessive capacitance to the power supply load? I started just the 6922 heaters without any ramp up but it still refused to go higher then 1.24 or so volts. Cheers!

9th January 2013, 07:36 PM	#8
tauro0221 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Victoria,TX	Hi, The max current for the LM338 it is 5 amps max. Your transformer can put out 50 VA /9 volts = 5 amps. Now the 6AS7 filament current is 2.5 amps. So your circuit it is within specs for the LM388. What are the size of the capacitors C10,C11 and C12?