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Old 30th August 2012, 10:33 PM   #901
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Nico,
I understand that many people do not listen to amplified music in a live situation, though many times there can be some sound reinforcement in large venues. Since you are recording your own source perhaps a kettle drum would be a better test of the worst case scenario for you personally? It doesn't sound like you will be listening to any pipe organs or train sounds so that would push your amplifier to your limits better than an acoustic guitar I would imagine. I do get where you are coming from, it is a different perspective than Tsiros who obviously listens to more pop music. On another note, Tsiros, I have seen direct feeds used for electric guitar and they weren't going through a traditional amplifier before being recorded. It is still in the active electronic realm, but not after going through a guitar head and speaker......

Steven
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Old 30th August 2012, 10:47 PM   #902
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Tsiros who obviously listens to more pop music. On another note, Tsiros, I have seen direct feeds used for electric guitar and they weren't going through a traditional amplifier before being recorded. It is still in the active electronic realm, but not after going through a guitar head and speaker......

Steven
Surprisingly, pop is the only music that i do not listen to, nor practice at all.

yes i've seen direct injection, and done recordings like that, but it's never kept like that till the end result. It's always either going through an amp/sim or reamped later. Reamping especially is something like a god's gift. The solid body electric guitar needs a cabinet simulation at least because it doesn't have any natural resonance to write home about.
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Old 30th August 2012, 11:12 PM   #903
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Actaully you are waffling a load of crap which has nothing to do with the discussion. People like yourself wants to be heard but has nothing constructive to offer. You have contributed absolutely zip.

This is my thread and I suggest you start a thread of your own choosing a topic that interest you and have a debate.
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Old 30th August 2012, 11:18 PM   #904
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
Actaully you are waffling a load of crap which has nothing to do with the discussion. People like yourself wants to be heard but has nothing constructive to offer. You have contributed absolutely zip.
you attack me but you don't explain what i did wrong. an ad hominem is not a valid argument.

On topic,
Quote:
I feel headphones are the best test system because you have some of the worlds best speakers only a centimetre from your ear and no room acoustics or furnishings or any other obsticle to affect what you hear.
Not really. headphones do not have the characteristic impedance curve of loudspeakers, so the load that the amp sees is very different. Their impedance is almost perfectly ohmic. No inductance.
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Old 30th August 2012, 11:39 PM   #905
SY is offline SY  United States
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Guys, let's keep it civil and to the topic. No-one "owns" a thread in the noncommercial parts of the forum. All technical points of view are welcome and encouraged.
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Old 31st August 2012, 01:57 AM   #906
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Smiley 09 View Post
-The semitones recognition was so fantastic realistically and colorful that I never hear it at any "live" concert - I think that only the conductors in front of orchestra have the same privilege listening of something alike.
I was never heard anything alike even in Live Piano concerts in Wiener concert house on any concert I was in the last 20 yrs.
Even at the concert I seat mostly in the middle of a 9 row - the best position for the best interpretation and also very good for the sound and from this distance if I close the eyes what i hear - it is "MONO".
There isn't any imaginable digital sourced playback chain to be even mentioned against that what I heard from that 78rpm Vinyl playback at that gourmet's session back then and I doubt, it would ever be any digital PB source capable to even come close to the knee of this top analog one.
This is the truly marvellous thing about sound reproduction, that it is capable of being superior to what is heard live, for the simple reason that the mic's, etc are usually set up in the absolutely optimum position and environment to pick up all the subtleties of the sound. Something we humans can rarely do in real life at a performance, no matter how much money is paid for the ticket. I first realised this over 20 years when I listened to a piano recital at the Sydney Opera House, and thought the sound was a bit lacklustre, not firing on all cylinders.

But sorry, Nico and Andreas, this was in comparison to a highly tweaked, pure digital setup. Analogue can do it too of course, but there is nothing instrinsic in CDs that stops it happening there. The simple answer is that convincing digital playback requires a lot of fussiness, being anal about everything. Analogue is quite tolerant of plenty of sloppiness in the playback chain, pleasurable sound emerges even if things are not quite right.

An analogy would be that analogue is like the steering of a 60's car. You could rock the top of the steering wheel a good 6 inches or more side to side and not much happens, the car still goes pretty well straight down the road. Try that on a modern, high performance vehicle and you'll go straight into the ditch! That's what digital is about ...

Frank
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Old 31st August 2012, 07:19 AM   #907
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SY,

I profusely apologize to anyone who objects listening to a 50s recording of Dave Brubeck on a 78 rpm record with no certification or reference made that it was recorded using a dummy head and absolutely compatible with stereo equipment sixty plus years in the future.

That was a total un-audiophile thing to do and I realize that I should be banned indefinitely from every audio forum in the universe until such time that I can prove beyond any doubt that I have been rehabilitated.

I also apologize for insisting that a few notes played on an acoustic instrument and recorded onto analogue tape could qualify as a recording - it actually is nothing and it should be impossible to hear anyway.

And finally for mentioning that the recording was using no mic, in stead of no pick-up which would have invalidated the proposal for some another reason I suppose.

The idea was purely to compare the change in characteristic of a particular sound before and after incrementing reservoir capacitance as has been discussed and simulated on this thread.

I did not know that recording an instrument directly without an interfacing speaker onto tape was invalid and that hearing something afterwards was a only a figment of my imagination.

Tsiros thank you for pointing out that my PC and sound-card operating at a max of 48 kHz sample rate and 96kbps would far out perform an analogue recorder using an infinitely high sampling frequency and infinitely high bit rate. Heck, I cannot not even strip the Studer for spares as they are pre-digital era and probably rubbish.

Tsiros thank you for pointing out my erroneous ways I vow to convert.
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Last edited by Nico Ras; 31st August 2012 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 31st August 2012, 07:46 AM   #908
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Frank, no disrespect meant but if you are listening to anything and I gate it do you think that the result is the same as the original, not a chance.

This argument has done its rounds and and will never go away because it was economics that forced everything to be digitized simply because humans have become tolerant to what has gone missing between black and white.

In a digital car as you mention, depending how closely you can mimic analogue depends how accurately you can steer.

If you only have left and right (1 & 0), going straight is a tri-state which does not exist in digital and it will depend on whether you want to be in the trees on the left or that on the right side of the road.

However if you can oscillate the steering between left and right the average might approximate a straight line. But if you stop for any length of time obviously you end up in the trees again.
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Old 31st August 2012, 08:16 AM   #909
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On the surface, the idea of telling if there's enough capacitance seems complex.
It certainly is not. Gorgeous bass H1/H2 balance = Their caps are big enough (aka the transformer is big enough).
Call Me Maybe - Carly Rae Jepsen (Disco Cover by Stacks of Wax f/ Nicholas Wells) - YouTube

After the fact, when its right, that's obvious. Therefore, the best thing this thread could do is predict necessary transformer va for avoiding negative consequences such as these:
needing transformer replacement
needing excessive capacitance
requiring capacitive multiplier

Which end of the horse is the cart?
So, predicting the required capacitance per given transformer and watts, does look like it serves the purpose of accurate transformer purchases.
Finding the best capacitance is so very simple, but finding the best transformer size to have the capacitance work right, is the hard part.
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Last edited by danielwritesbac; 31st August 2012 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 31st August 2012, 08:21 AM   #910
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Daniel that is the core of this thread, what is the minimum requirement, if someone feels the need to double it then so be it at least it removes some marketing hype of amp X having one mega farad rail capacitors and that is why it is the best sounding amp, if we can show that 1000 uF is adequate to reproduce sound accurately and consistently then who cares about 1 mega farad.
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