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Old 30th August 2012, 05:34 AM   #881
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Swirlingly!

(and maybe even a little better, if I hold the handle down)

Last edited by gootee; 30th August 2012 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:43 AM   #882
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Keep up the good work Tom, Fas, Terry et al. I do have my eye on this thread, its just that I was otherwise preoccupied. Do drop by and see what am up to. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group...oup-thing.html .
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Old 30th August 2012, 07:31 AM   #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsiros View Post
if the recording is binaural, hells yeah! If it is a normal recording, not so much.
Hi Tsiros,

Does not have to be bi-anything - in fact mono is the best test signal, you are listening for changes or differences in timbre or characteristics in the music as well as resolution i.e. separation between instruments/voices.

Stereo makes a mediocre recording seem acceptable binaural even more so because of the fact that it confuses your brain. Remember you are not listening to music effects and tricks used or created by an audio engineer you are listening very critically for changes in character of the source. The best source for this purpose are in using 78 rpm and 45 rpm mono recordings of real instruments and voices. Do not say but what about the scratches and noise - no chance, they should be clearly distinguishably from the music.
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Last edited by Nico Ras; 30th August 2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 30th August 2012, 08:36 AM   #884
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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Nico Ras

You are so off the mark it is disheartening.

First of all, binaural recording predates stereo recording and it is not an audio engineering trick or effect as you say (something tells me you didn't even know what exactly it is, before now) It carries information appropriate for listening with headphones. It does not confuse the brain any more than, say, a high quality recording. Since when is "higher detail" called "confusion for the brain" ?

You claim that 78/45rpm (with horrible SNR/dynamic range, frequency range) is more revealing of timbres and characteristics in music than a 24bit 96KHz sample? This isn't even worthy of discussion and borders on sarcasm.
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Old 30th August 2012, 02:21 PM   #885
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Sorry I am spot on Tsiros, that is not what I am interested in. You have obviously no idea what I am trying to achieve. A piano tuner with one ear will tune a piano spot on. Timbre and resolution between two notes has nothing to do with time delay or apparent depth between sounds reaching each ear. So think about it again before you make a stupid comment. Read the whole thread not the last post.

This has nothing to do with CD vs records. Unfortunately digital can never be real no matter how much you try to convince yourself, but this is another argument all together. I am at the moment listening to reservoir caps and interested in the inter-modulation products and artifacts that the reservoir caps may introduce. Not in sound stage, width, breath, positioning or whatever you like to listen too.

I suppose when you measure harmonics you need two spectrum analyzers, one for each eye?
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Last edited by Nico Ras; 30th August 2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 30th August 2012, 03:40 PM   #886
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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I have never seen such a vulgar display of nonsequitirs and absurdity for quite a long time.

We are not tuning pianos here. So what a piano tuner can do is irrelevant. Piano tuning is not a dark art. Want a difficult to tune instrument? Try an electric guitar with a floyd rose trem.

Vinyls are demonstratably poorer than CD. It is a different thing "vinyl vs CD" (which are industry standards) and a different thing "digital vs analog" (which are not standards, merely ways to store data). It is not a debate of "analog vs digital". If an analog recording(and subsequent reading of said analog storage medium) was perfect, then it would be superior to any digital... however vinyl is a far cry from perfect analog. Cd is closer to the original recording and that's not what my ears say, it's what measurements say. Claiming vinyl is better is akin to saying you can hear things that are not there. Furthermore, "digital", by and of itself means nothing, since "digital" is merely a method of representing a signal. It says nothing about specifications. 4bit 8KHz is as digital as 24bit 192KHz and i'll shave my testicles with a rusty spoon if someone measures vinyl that is better than 24bit 192KHz through a DAC that is 1% the price of the most expensive turntable+cartridge+deemphasis/preamp that is sold today.
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:07 PM   #887
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How is this argument at all related to capacitors and calculating the Cmin and VAmin of a power supply? Let's get back to the subject at hand. Start that other argument in a new thread if you want, that belongs on an audiophile website with which wires sound better...
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:35 PM   #888
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Kindhorman, it is about correlating tonal difference caused by modulation of the power rail (supported by different value caps) caused by the input stimulus.

I am fortunate to have pure tonal perception, there is no magic and many people have this ability, the opposite is being tone deaf and in between are those who may or may not discriminate between a cat purring and a dog barking.

So the idea is to try and arrive at some correlation between my esteemed friends Tom, Fred and all (I hope I may call them friends) simulation with actual listening and finally measurement.

It was not to promote any type of medium or recording principle it was specifically to hear tonal differences between various values of reservoir caps on headphones that was in my opinion well recorded source material of natural instruments arriving at both eardrums simultaneously without any confusing or distracting effects.

In fact tsiros have given me the idea to record both my Hofner and Gibson directly (no mic) onto tape using a pretty reasonable Studer Revox reel-to-reel at an infinitely high data rate while listening for tonal changes with increasing reservoir cap values. The next step is to compare in and output using simple channel A-B on a scope to see what artifacts have been added.

If tsiros feels that he may observe tonal character using other methods then so be it and if his methods makes sense I will gladly accommodate these to establish the correlation.
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Last edited by Nico Ras; 30th August 2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:41 PM   #889
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
In fact tsiros have given me the ultimate idea to record both my Hofner and Gibson directly (no mic) onto tape using my Studer Revox and then listening with different value multiple caps fitted.
in that case you are not comparing the effect of capacitors on music reproduction, but on music production.
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:56 PM   #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
Hi Tsiros,

- Does not have to be bi-anything - in fact mono is the best test signal, you are listening for changes or differences in timbre or characteristics in the music as well as resolution i.e. separation between instruments/voices.
- The best source for this purpose are in using 78 rpm and 45 rpm mono recordings of real instruments and voices. Do not say but what about the scratches and noise - no chance, they should be clearly distinguishably from the music.
Hi Nico,

I agree with You 100% !
I have quite a while back (2003) a chance to be present at a musical session at one of my most gourmet's musical master and classical music lover. The source was the LP play back chain: TT Versa dynamic - vacuum plater + Air-bearing Tangent. arm fitted with a special custom made "MONO" Benz-Micro Silver cartridge (silver cross coil wires, boron cantilever + micro-ridge Diamond stylus - 15uV Op) There was also a first two gain transistors mounted directly at the back of the cart. in a little prolonged and carefully damped shield. At first look it looks like a cart is a bit longer as it should be. It is all then wired with a 5 silver cores braided in to the very near custom made U-Linear balanced Tube Phono stage incl. passive interstage RIAA made of special LC circuit where all the "C" were the Air C trimmers. This balanced mono HV phono OP stage has the two Ops via the bal. stepped vol. contr. directly connected to a two Acuphase M-8000 Mono Amps feed a pair of bi-wired Apogee Scintilla speakers.

We listened a custom recorded mono Piano recording made from cca 3m away from piano with a group of 16 DPA 130V Mics recorded from one single point (MONO - not stereo) to a 16 ch tubed Studer 2inch tape recorder at 76ips. This was then transfered directly from same machine to a Neumann cutter at 78 rpm direct to a 200g Vinyl discs (4).
This was the most realistic sound I ever have a chance to hear from any source, and yes it was MONO.

-The semitones recognition was so fantastic realistically and colorful that I never hear it at any "live" concert - I think that only the conductors in front of orchestra have the same privilege listening of something alike.
I was never heard anything alike even in Live Piano concerts in Wiener concert house on any concert I was in the last 20 yrs.
Even at the concert I seat mostly in the middle of a 9 row - the best position for the best interpretation and also very good for the sound and from this distance if I close the eyes what i hear - it is "MONO".
There isn't any imaginable digital sourced playback chain to be even mentioned against that what I heard from that 78rpm Vinyl playback at that gourmet's session back then and I doubt, it would ever be any digital PB source capable to even come close to the knee of this top analog one.

From my current experience the only new and orig. digital 256x DSD recordings can maybe come to the knee of this analog one but only if it would be done the same way and only in mono as was done this best analogue I heard. all the rest whatever PCM stuff even (32/192KHz) comparing to this analogue one is like a very pale 96 kbps MP3 sound.


Cheers,

Andreas
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