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Old 19th August 2012, 02:27 PM   #681
AP2 is offline AP2  Italy
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Hi,
Many posts reflect current knowledge and the ensuing chaos, according to the beliefs of each.
a table summarize the situation:
Some think that the problem of voltage drop does not exist.
Or, has an influence only on the peak power.
Or, can produce a distortion near the clips area.
others think it's a dirty SMPS system. (in part they are right, if you do not know the new technologies for audio)
Many do not know the relationship between the changes of timbre and the behavior of the amplifier according to the power supply.
I mean, when we hear that the timbre is not original, soft percussion in the case, what is this? How can we represent it / measure it? . sorry to say this, but we were the first to investigate this phenomenon, is now an official study, at two large universities. this phenomenon are linked other parameters, one is the increase of the ISP (spl), in fact, is in agreement with real drum's, which is capable of producing 110dB. (with amplifier, require 4kW).(obvious that in this case, the sound waves all start with the same phase)
So, if we continue to see the problem as a loss of peak power, is not important, some capacitors solve.

back on topic, what's the solution?
solution is a regulator with high efficiency, very fast, maybe not imagine how fast. this solution that I know well, unfortunately, has high costs and difficulties in feasibility, in the case of production qty. then let the best ways to make easy and safe to use.
--------------------------------------
This is an old measure of 4R mosfet amp, well see voltage drop(528W @40Hz). this is my record of the response regulator. (only 1000uF at output)
One important: timbre is entirely different, very hard and dry already at 30w, and not at full power as you think.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:31 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liching1952 View Post
Power= U^2/R or I^2.R so its all the same.
But but.. what about the big bad inductor that says.. "Hmm.. I notice you want to change your current demand and I'm not going to let that happen just right now..! Instead, I'll just build a magnetic field from your want first. Njea.".

Your supply wires and PCB tracks are like that.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:36 PM   #683
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Interesting statistics liching1952, there where 94 people that visited your profile to see who you really are since you joined DIY audio only 13 days.

All that you indicate is that you chose Switzerland as a country. You are definitely making an impression on the members here.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:38 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP2 View Post
Hi,
Many posts reflect current knowledge and the ensuing chaos, according to the beliefs of each.
a table summarize the situation:
Some think that the problem of voltage drop does not exist.
Or, has an influence only on the peak power.
Or, can produce a distortion near the clips area.
others think it's a dirty SMPS system. (in part they are right, if you do not know the new technologies for audio)
Many do not know the relationship between the changes of timbre and the behavior of the amplifier according to the power supply.
I mean, when we hear that the timbre is not original, soft percussion in the case, what is this? How can we represent it / measure it? . sorry to say this, but we were the first to investigate this phenomenon, is now an official study, at two large universities. this phenomenon are linked other parameters, one is the increase of the ISP (spl), in fact, is in agreement with real drum's, which is capable of producing 110dB. (with amplifier, require 4kW).(obvious that in this case, the sound waves all start with the same phase)
So, if we continue to see the problem as a loss of peak power, is not important, some capacitors solve.

back on topic, what's the solution?
solution is a regulator with high efficiency, very fast, maybe not imagine how fast. this solution that I know well, unfortunately, has high costs and difficulties in feasibility, in the case of production qty. then let the best ways to make easy and safe to use.
--------------------------------------
This is an old measure of 4R mosfet amp, well see voltage drop(528W @40Hz). this is my record of the response regulator. (only 1000uF at output)
One important: timbre is entirely different, very hard and dry already at 30w, and not at full power as you think.
Why it is so important to have a stable power supply voltage?!? Its not because in a good amp design there is no transmition from power line to amp output.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:42 PM   #685
AP2 is offline AP2  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liching1952 View Post
Why it is so important to have a stable power supply voltage?!? Its not because in a good amp design there is no transmition from power line to amp output.
Ahahaha...you listen to the power supply modulated by input signal. not listen to the input signal.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:46 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
Interesting statistics liching1952, there where 94 people that visited your profile to see who you really are since you joined DIY audio only 13 days.

All that you indicate is that you chose Switzerland as a country. You are definitely making an impression on the members here.
Chose Switserland? Then contact the moderator and find out my Swiss IP.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:55 PM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP2 View Post
Ahahaha...you listen to the power supply modulated by input signal. not listen to the input signal.
Watch before you ahaha..am talking of the end stage not the frontend. The frontend needs a stable and humfree supply but the current demand is stable and low, so its simple to acchieve.
The end stage is an emitter or source follower. The name already says, the output follows the voltage of the basis or gate. The supply is connected to the collector or drain. How could this come to the emitter or source. Look to the y parameters of the transistor or fet.
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:57 PM   #688
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Have you heard of Early effect, or was that omitted from the MSc of which you seem so proud?
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Old 19th August 2012, 02:59 PM   #689
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AP2, I do agree with your analogy and this is exactly what I believe that I hear when switching between regular power supply, SMPS and batteries (each of these power sources are different). There is a definite change in sound character (or timber if you like).

And it would seem that some of our upstanding members have proven beyond a doubt that there is a relationship in sound character and power supply specification.

If we could find a solution to this question, we may find that amplifiers that measure the same sound the same.

For years I have torn myself away from the crowd that believes that harmonic power distribution and amplifier bandwidth is mainly responsible for the sound character of an amp.

I believe the amplifier sound characteristic results mainly from the power supply and some of the very knowledgeable DIY members seem to confirm this for me. It is only a question of the definition of the power supply relative to the amplifier power and output load.
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Last edited by Nico Ras; 19th August 2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 19th August 2012, 03:10 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Have you heard of Early effect, or was that omitted from the MSc of which you seem so proud?
This effect is practically canceled out when the basis is connected to a low impedance which it is in a good design. The basis is driven by an emitter follower with low impedance.
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