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Old 17th October 2012, 10:22 PM   #1481
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
However, as soon as the power supply modulation increases to similar levels than that of the small signals it not only masks the small signals, but also mixes with them creating new spurious inter-modulation products which could be dissonance and of course fatiguing.
Precisely, Nico. This is the sort of thing I hear in nearly all other audio systems that I have a listen to, at a certain volume they turn into conventional hifi systems, they no longer sound "real". People often put this down to speaker distortion, but in my experience this is rubbish; I have never yet had to "fix" the sound of a system by changing to better speakers in any fashion. Yes, weaknesses inside a speaker need to be addressed, but the real killer technique is to make sure the electronics are working cleanly ...

Frank
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Old 17th October 2012, 10:34 PM   #1482
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simple fix to all these problems is to know the limits of operation of your amp.....just like DF96 said, treat your 100watt amp as if it were a 60 watt amp...better if you treat it as a 25 watter....

this is also the reason i liked the Leach Super amp, at 250 watts per channel, running them at say 10 watts, none of the psu rubbish can show its ugly head.....
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:33 AM   #1483
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
simple fix to all these problems is to know the limits of operation of your amp.....just like DF96 said, treat your 100watt amp as if it were a 60 watt amp...better if you treat is a 25 watter....

this is also the reason i liked the Leach Super amp, at 250 watts per channel, running them at say 10 watts, none of the psu rubbish can show its ugly head.....
But what's that saying about the design methodology of these beasts? Would you buy a car that's advertised as being capable of going 150mph just so you're comfortable at 45mph? And if you dared to try to go anywhere over 100mph it would be as dangerous as hell? Sorry, that's just nonsense, a failure of the industry - talk about poor value for money ... .

I have a unit rated at 20 watts, on a good day , and I run it close to clipping a lot of the time, with very good results. And that's how it should be ...

Frank
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Old 18th October 2012, 01:54 AM   #1484
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But what's that saying about the design methodology of these beasts? Would you buy a car that's advertised as being capable of going 150mph just so you're comfortable at 45mph? And if you dared to try to go anywhere over 100mph it would be as dangerous as hell? Sorry, that's just nonsense, a failure of the industry - talk about poor value for money ... .

I have a unit rated at 20 watts, on a good day , and I run it close to clipping a lot of the time, with very good results. And that's how it should be ...

Frank
yours must be classA amp.....

it's about preference.....who is to tell me i can not have them?
Diy'ers can be crazy at times because they can choose to.....

i make high powered amps because i can....
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Old 18th October 2012, 02:02 AM   #1485
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Would you buy a car that's advertised as being capable of going 150mph just so you're comfortable at 45mph? And if you dared to try to go anywhere over 100mph it would be as dangerous as hell? Sorry, that's just nonsense, a failure of the industry - talk about poor value for money ...
Actually, cars are often designed and advertised like that. Look at truck commercials. They often show them being loaded with (for example) a bed full of bricks that easily exceed the truck's weight limit. Then you see a small disclaimer, "Professional driver, do not attempt...".

I know of more than one amp that is designed that way.
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Old 18th October 2012, 02:32 AM   #1486
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
yours must be classA amp.....

it's about preference.....who is to tell me i can not have them?
Diy'ers can be crazy at times because they can choose to.....

i make high powered amps because i can....
No, just chip amps, TDAs. But, they don't have to worry below about 180Hz, a separately powered woofer does that. And, they're part of a HT receiver, so the transformer, etc, has to be sized to handle all channels going full bore; so in stereo mode the unit's power supply is not as stressed as some would be ...

The other part is that a lot of tweaking has been done to make the supply as clean as possible, no glitching gets through to the voltage rails. If this work wasn't done the sound would just be slightly better mid-fi ...

Frank
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Old 18th October 2012, 03:32 AM   #1487
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oh, yes, my altec lansing acs-33 2.1 system rocks....they're made out of chip amps....i still use it till this day...

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 18th October 2012, 03:36 AM   #1488
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Heh, heh ... the bizarre thing is that that type of system is indeed capable of pretty impressive sound if one does enough of the right sort of things to it ...

Frank
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Old 18th October 2012, 03:46 AM   #1489
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sometimes, a lot of listening pleasure can be had with such simple contraptions....my ACS33 is more than 10 years old yet i still enjoy it....we can learn a lot from those....
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Old 18th October 2012, 06:02 AM   #1490
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Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
Not as much loss as regulators. However, I do apologize for not showing the "output diodes" as Schottky like MBR1045, or even a fast silicon, like an MR. Credit to diyaudio.com member "TheProf" for that idea. This is not intended for every power supply in every application. Let's not lose sight of the target. Remember, the application had a near zero length umbilical cable and possibly borderline size transformer.
However, if the transformer is about watts*3=va and the umbilical cable is long enough to even the odds, then the "power board output diodes" would be useless except for minor stereo separation enhancement.
Do you have a clue what forward voltage drop is, Daniel?

Yeah "let's not lose sight of the target"!!!

Last edited by CharlieLaub; 18th October 2012 at 06:04 AM.
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