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Old 21st July 2012, 05:46 PM   #131
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
Katie&Dad here is a low budget cap.
I believe i speak what everyone's thinking right now: what the ****!!??

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Originally Posted by Nico Ras View Post
Hugh are you sure that it is subjective? Everything we hear, feel see or smell is not subjective. There is nothing nice about smelling a fart.
funny example choice. The smell of a fart is one of the most subjective smells i can think of right now. your farts smell ok to you but horrible to others. farts of others smell horrible to you.

there is quite a bit of subjectivity in music/sound. What sounds pleasant to your is related to what you have been listening to during your life. What sounds interesting to you, musically, though, is a just right (to you) combination of familiarity and surprise. It has to be familiar enough to be reckognizable yet different enough to be interesting.
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Old 21st July 2012, 05:55 PM   #132
MiiB is offline MiiB  Denmark
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Don't believe this subjectivity for a second....I have never ever heard anyone not liking when things are better in musical terms... stating subjectivity is the same as saying it doesn't matter...

Last edited by MiiB; 21st July 2012 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 21st July 2012, 05:58 PM   #133
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We can then expect that a design would perform in practice that could come close to simulation and that an FFT indicating amplitudes of H2 and H3, etc actually become meaningful quantities that can be discussed and optimized and may have a real impact on amplifier performance. This gentlemen and ladies is where this thread is leading that is why it requires as much input from all hands as it may become one of the most important threads in the community. At the end of the day we arrive at a standard and that takes the guess work out of it...
Dear Nico,

You did inspire to investigate the actual harmonic distortion profile further, apart from any relation to power supplies as I did mention earlier my amp exhibits mostly odd harmonics due to the input stage. I could remember a post here on DIY and a website detailing some JFET input stages and their distortion profiles. So far I can conclude that there are ways to influence the profile while not being statistical simulation flukes. It's interesting, I may post up something for discussion soon
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:02 PM   #134
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I will be looking forward to your thread MagicBox, I am sure that it will be a worthy contribution.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:06 PM   #135
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Tsiros, yes there is subjectivity in our senses but only to a certain extent, that is the point I would like to make.

Red is red not green, but whether everyone likes red is debatable. I must beg to differ regarding the fart. I avoid smelling anyone's fart especially my own.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:33 PM   #136
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Hugh are you sure that it is subjective? Everything we hear, feel see or smell is not subjective. There is nothing nice about smelling a fart.

The power supply may just be the reason why different amps sound different and it may be less subjective or not subjective at all. That is what I would like to establish here, is there an optimal value, and if there is it should be definable and calculable, there can be no black magic, this is science like any other science.
I believe you're heading down a dead-end with this - my understanding is that you need to take into account a lot factors in the power supply design, the choice of caps is just one of them. To link sound to cap value means holding constant these other factors. And then the rule of thumb becomes narrow in application. I don't see anybody making use of it but the exploration of this topic does make sense in terms of extending the science.

Since music enjoyment is subjective by definition (+1 to comments from tsiros too), it seems a prudent option is to use the empirically derived advice from the 'collective' experience available to us.

And we may have different goals in what we want to achieve in terms of sound, for different types of music in our listening environments. This may translate to having different requirements for how we implement our power supplies too.
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Last edited by Bigun; 21st July 2012 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:38 PM   #137
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My point from the outset, mains related ripple is one issue that manifests itself as hum, signal related ripple masks low intensity detail without knowing it. It does not show up measuring the amplifier output or using FFT, it is only detectable by ear if you know what a good amp sounds like.

This afternoon I fooled with two extremes, 80 000uF per rail capacitors versus a single 4700 uF per rail. Now here is were I get shot down. Bass is better with the big caps but on the other hand the small cap allows me to hear so much more music.

Do not for a moment think I am now converted, this is fooling around for a few hours using my normal listening amp. It was easy to swap between the caps as wires are bolt on.

All my caps are from Krummer in Germany (I don't think anyone has heard of these)

Katie&Dad here is a low budget cap.
NO that is a FAKE cap. If you are really that strapped for cash you will get no-where.

I've never heard of Krummer. Germany is generally renowned for good engineering so I can't see any reason why not to try them.

The caps I used were NOS from America. Dubilier - they have proved to be excellent value for money.

Last edited by KatieandDad; 21st July 2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:45 PM   #138
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ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS look at the reputation of the company that you are buying from.

I bought a lot of 2SK170BLs from a reputable dealer. They turned out to be fake but at least I got a refund.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:52 PM   #139
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ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS look at the reputation of the company that you are buying from.

I bought a lot of 2SK170BLs from a reputable dealer. They turned out to be fake but at least I got a refund.
thats a good reason to buy them matched and tested from someone you trust ofcourse.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:55 PM   #140
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I was building a Pass B1 and bought 25 2SK170BLs from a reputable UK dealer. At the same time I bought 16 from an E-Bay Hong Kong dealer. The UK ones were fakes, the Hong Kong ones were genuine.
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