Dual supply using 2 transformers +170-0-170 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Power Supplies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th July 2012, 03:29 AM   #1
wlowes is offline wlowes  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
wlowes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
Blog Entries: 9
Default Dual supply using 2 transformers +170-0-170

I am building an amp that requires +170 and -170v rails for b+ on the output tubes. The circuit calls for a typical dual power supply using a 230vCT transformer and a single bridge rectifier.

I have a stock of 115v transformers. Is there anything wrong with me using 2 115v transformers and 2 rectifiers to create this circuit creating a 0v reference to ground by connecting the + out of one bridge to the - of the second bridge creating my +170-0-(-)170?

I have seen some discussions where the solution proposed is to parallel the 2 transformers to create something equivalent to a ct transformer feeding one rectifier. Cost of an additional rectifier is a non issue. What are pros and cons of the 2 configurations. Best sound quality is the ultimate objective.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 09:29 AM   #2
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Elvee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlowes View Post
I have seen some discussions where the solution proposed is to parallel the 2 transformers to create something equivalent to a ct transformer feeding one rectifier.
That is the best configuration, for a number of reasons, like this one for example:

Quote:
Now about the rail sag:
With a dual bridge, each secondary is assigned to its own supply polarity, eg. the top one cares for the positive and the bottom one for the negative.
But this means that when one of the secondaries has difficulty supplying a current surge, it is alone in coping with it: the other cannot help it and has to stay idle.
By contrast, with a single rectifier bridge, both secondaries are allowed to cooperate for both polarities: they are in effect paralleled, and the voltage sag is halved in this case.
This has to be qualified: when the music signal has a high frequency, the effect is not noticeable because of the filter caps.
But for frequencies lower than the mains frequency (50 or 60Hz), the effect comes into play, and improves the stiffness of the supply
__________________
. .Circlophone your life !!!! . .
♫♪ My little cheap Circlophone© ♫♪
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 09:59 AM   #3
DF96 is offline DF96  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee
Quote:
Now about the rail sag:
With a dual bridge, each secondary is assigned to its own supply polarity, eg. the top one cares for the positive and the bottom one for the negative.
But this means that when one of the secondaries has difficulty supplying a current surge, it is alone in coping with it: the other cannot help it and has to stay idle.
By contrast, with a single rectifier bridge, both secondaries are allowed to cooperate for both polarities: they are in effect paralleled, and the voltage sag is halved in this case.
Is that true? The secondaries are still effectively in series, not parallel; the advantage with a single bridge is one diode drop instead of two. So slightly less sag, but for a quite different reason. Where did you read that?

As I understand it, the reason for using dual bridges when one would suffice is to enable better grounding arrangements for the caps. Having said that, I'm not sure I'm convinced of that anyway.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 12:11 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Osvaldo de Banfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Barrio Garay,Almirante Brown, Buenos Aires, Argentina
There is an alternate solution using a dual diode-dual cap voltage doubler, if the current is low, and so , omit one less transformer and its interaction.
__________________
LW1DSE
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 03:06 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oakmont PA
Your method is the best way. The dual bridges mean that the transformer secondary is not directly connected to circuit ground. It is only connected when the diodes conduct. That reduces line induced noise. Although that is not normally an issue with vacuum tube amplifiers.

There are a few other advantages also, but that is one of the biggest.

You will want to try switching which primary leads go to the AC hot. That will also affect noise level.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 04:22 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Osvaldo de Banfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Barrio Garay,Almirante Brown, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
Your method is the best way. The dual bridges mean that the transformer secondary is not directly connected to circuit ground. It is only connected when the diodes conduct. That reduces line induced noise. Although that is not normally an issue with vacuum tube amplifiers.

There are a few other advantages also, but that is one of the biggest.

You will want to try switching which primary leads go to the AC hot. That will also affect noise level.
I´m not sure if you are referring to my post, but using a full wave doubler, secondary is at HF ground via the output caps, and if half wave, it is directly to gnd. I used it some time ago with SS rectifiers and 2 * 270µF for a regenerative AM receiver. But it induces high AC ripple in the regenerative detector, so I rewind my trafo for an 6X4 dual diode tube rectifier. For this reason I explicitly told "when load current is low".
__________________
LW1DSE
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2012, 11:59 PM   #7
wlowes is offline wlowes  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
wlowes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
Blog Entries: 9
Thank you. Lots to consider. I should have mentioned that I am using fairly overspec toroids at 5A ea. Each is driving a pair of 6C33C so not light current.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Arcam 170.3 rainforth Digital Source 7 16th July 2013 07:24 AM
Stk412-170 nitinbose Chip Amps 4 29th April 2010 02:52 AM
NEW - Wadia 170 iTransport moe29 Digital Source 14 5th February 2008 03:54 AM
Stk412-170 Mikelmonster Chip Amps 1 18th July 2007 09:38 AM
170 class D sub amp partyjups Solid State 0 26th August 2001 04:11 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:39 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2