Super Regulator, collecting the facts - Page 21 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Power Supplies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th March 2007, 07:52 PM   #501
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Well, here's a much soldered over proto-type -- this one omits the clamp diodes on the AD825's -- I did get a wonky LM329DZ which wouldn't allow the SMT version to start-up -- replaced it and now works fine. The positive regulator has the LM317 pre-regulator, while I took the negative pre out for testing purposes. In the final version I think that I can save about 33% of the real estate by scrunching things up.

This one uses R1206 1K resistors for the error sense -- in the next go around they will be R2010.

Three are no bypass caps in either of these, no oscillation problems at all. I do use 499R to decouple the inverting input of the opamp.

Oh, and you can see where there was an error on the PCB -- had to patch up with some wire-wrap wire.

Edit -- the high current traces pass along the edges of the board. The grounds all intersect in the center.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2007, 10:01 PM   #502
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Here's a comparison of the straight AD797AN SuperRegulator with a Pre-Regulated Version -- using an LM337 -- I guess it's pretty convincing -- I still want to do this with the HP3403C for 10Hz to 100kHz. FWIW when I repeated the AD797 tests the values still come up the same so there isn't some environmental wonkiness going on.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2007, 07:44 PM   #503
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
A tube based sort of super regulator, an article by Mr. Bob Pease.

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/I...ArticleID=1509

I think it look like an super regulator if the basic concept is considered as an voltage reference powered from the output and an error amp also powered from the output.
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 09:07 AM   #504
Khron is offline Khron  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Finland
Send a message via AIM to Khron Send a message via MSN to Khron Send a message via Yahoo to Khron
Mr jackinnj , would you mind if I asked you to post/attach the schematic / PCB / silkscreen for the through-hole version of the super-reg?

(For DIY purposes - powering some active crossovers)
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 09:35 AM   #505
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
Jack, some time has gone now, any conclusions? Does the board work alright?

My all SMD regulator works pretty good. The difference is that I used a 1 A SOT223 transistor.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 11:42 AM   #506
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Khron
Mr jackinnj , would you mind if I asked you to post/attach the schematic / PCB / silkscreen for the through-hole version of the super-reg?

(For DIY purposes - powering some active crossovers)
The boards are available from AudioXpress' webstore -- Old Colony Sound -- for $24.95. Here's a link: http://www.audioxpress.com/bksprods/PCBCTB.htm
For the noise testing I used the Old Colony boards and through-hole parts.

PA -- looks good -- I found that the R2010 resistors were best for the error sense circuit -- I had used R0805 originally. Why not solder in an AD797AR and see how it compares with the AD825 -- and in spite of admonitions against, I found that the LT11115 worked quite well on the Old Colony board.

My smt board works very well -- it incorporates the LM317 pre-regulation -- I have it working in the modded Crown IC150a preamp.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 12:45 PM   #507
Khron is offline Khron  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Finland
Send a message via AIM to Khron Send a message via MSN to Khron Send a message via Yahoo to Khron
Well, with all due respect, unless you have some sort of financial aggreement with AudioXpress, i'd much rather etch and drill the pcb's myself

Plus, that's quite pricey for a few sq.in of circuit board, at least for my pocket...

PS: regarding the opamps used, apart from the GBW, low noise, low offset, what other minimum requirements would there be? (like slew rate etc)
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 02:00 PM   #508
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
P-A -- how much heat is your pass transistor dissipating?
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 02:03 PM   #509
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
You have lot's of options when it comes to parts but the faster you want the regulator to be, the harder to make it work properly.

One important thing is minimum supply voltage of the opamp and also common mode properites, important at startup.
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 02:04 PM   #510
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally posted by jackinnj
P-A -- how much heat is your pass transistor dissipating?
Somewhere between 500-1000 mW. Since I have a groundplane I'll get cooling also. I haven't tested the absolute limit.
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 02:13 PM   #511
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by peranders

Somewhere between 500-1000 mW. Since I have a groundplane I'll get cooling also. I haven't tested the absolute limit.
Mine dissipates about 800 mW -- the D-Pak is about 50% more efficient than the SO-223 package and is a pretty close analog to the D44 and D45 used by WJ and JD in their designs -- but in both cases the required surface area under the chip is pretty small -- at least according to National Semi AN-1028.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 03:47 PM   #512
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
lineup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: the north
Thumbs up Sing The Glory of AD797 - One of the best Op-Amps ever designed

Quote:
Originally posted by ALW
The AD797 is a remarkable chip,
but not in this reg.
---
Not one of my AD825-based units has ever oscillated

ALW
I agree with first part of yur statement - because it is for me TRUE!

jackinnj
great work and excellent investigations.


I also can tell, for anyone not knowing already, there is not many that have succh nice test-gears, (some of it he has built himself) as jackinnj.
Me lineup has not!
... but I many times can recoginze a good circuit, by the sight of it.
AD797 is such a circuit.
Anyone that has followed my works and postings here, would know about my likings of AD797.

Do a forum search: lineup AD797



Click the image to open in full size.

In this special Super Regulator application
it looks like AD825 does well,
but both AD797 and LT1055 does better, by one level.



May I also remind of one Topic I started, where I published a discrete Clone of AD797.
Those who can understand what is a good Amplifier
has already downloaded my schematics

the AD797 chip, has got it's limitations:
mainly:
- Supply Voltage upper limit
- Ouput Drive Current limit, comes from how much heat a DIL8 can take

... while my Clone and any customly design AD797-Clone does not need to have
such restricted performance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Keep on this Super Regulator work boys and girls!
( I see jackinnj is most probably a dear Lady )
and .... peranders is a very good man in Low Noise Extreme apps.
( See for example peranders Extreme Low Noise RIAA Amp )


Couldnt be a better Team here,
for making The Ultimate Best Regulator ... ever


Regards
lineup

.................................................. .................

APPENDIX A.
Amplifiers >Solid State > AD797 Clone people! Who can make a better one.

AD797 Clone people! Who can make a better one.


Quote:
Originally posted by lineup
12th December 2006
Everything tells me, that AD797 is not only a very good operational amplifier
The topology used has got to be something extremely good!
----
A few details from me, for those who want to try to make a better AD797 Clone.
... but I am not sure anyone could do this better than myself
... maybe get some similar results, but not better, I doubt.
----
My circuit is in attachment and follows the AD797 schematic
__________________
lineup
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 04:30 PM   #513
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Default Re: Sing The Glory of AD797 - One of the best Op-Amps ever designed

Quote:
Originally posted by lineup



Keep on this Super Regulator work boys and girls!
( I see jackinnj is most probably a dear Lady )
No, it's just that Carol Beer is my favorite actrix.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2007, 09:12 PM   #514
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
lineup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: the north
Default Re: Re: Sing The Glory of AD797 - One of the best Op-Amps ever designed

Quote:
Originally posted by jackinnj

No, it's just that Carol Beer is my favorite actrix.
There has been 'a pair of boys' on our TV up here.
It is two crazy english boys, and they dresses in Womans clothes.
Often also one of them is sitting in a wheel chair.

I wonder, maybe 'Carol' is in that English TV-serie?
Anyway, it is almost as fun & good as 'Monty Python's Flying Circus'
... another totally absurd English invention.


Regards
lineup - not english, - but I fancy them Crazy English
like: John Cleese - my good what Childish Man ;D
__________________
lineup
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2007, 12:03 AM   #515
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
lineup, can't you stick to the topic please? Do you have anything technical to add?
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2007, 06:58 AM   #516
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
A tube based sort of super regulator, an article by Mr. Bob Pease.

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/I...ArticleID=1509

I think it look like an super regulator if the basic concept is considered as an voltage reference powered from the output and an error amp also powered from the output.
What do you say guys, tube dudes? Can this circuit be labeled as "super regulator"?
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2007, 10:20 AM   #517
diyAudio Member
 
aparatusonitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Split, Croatia
Here is my implementation of W. Jung Regulator in Eagle3d image. Real thing works without any sort of problem even with AD797 opamp.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...usonitus/W.jpg
__________________
Non é mai abbastanza...
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 09:59 AM   #518
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
If anyone already has any scope photos (or just data) of transient testing with a dynamic load, such as when drawing fast-edged current steps that rise from near minimum to near maximum and fall from near maximum to near minimum, or whatever else you might have, perhaps something that might be a more-appropriate transient test, I would be interested in seeing them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 10:35 AM   #519
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Hi Aparatus,
give us more, I'm banging the spoon.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 11:35 AM   #520
diyAudio Member
 
aparatusonitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Split, Croatia
Quote:
Originally posted by gootee
If anyone already has any scope photos (or just data) of transient testing with a dynamic load, such as when drawing fast-edged current steps that rise from near minimum to near maximum and fall from near maximum to near minimum, or whatever else you might have, perhaps something that might be a more-appropriate transient test, I would be interested in seeing them.
I don't have scope, but I do have a friend owning one, so if you explane me step by step how and what I need beside scope, maybe I can performe same testing in future (emphasize on maybe and future), cos I've never deal with scope and stuff beffore.

Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi Aparatus,
give us more, I'm banging the spoon.
Will do I hope, but what exatly you want Andrew?

...and my apologize to Mr. Walt Jung 'cos I put his name on thing which he has no involvement in. Anyway, I will remove his name if I ever produce some more PCBs, 'cos I have deep respect for him (thx Per-Anders )
__________________
Non é mai abbastanza...
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 12:21 PM   #521
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Hi Aparatus,
PCB layout and component numbering to match a schematic would allow copies to be made.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 04:16 PM   #522
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
By this you mean
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 05:14 PM   #523
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by gootee
If anyone already has any scope photos (or just data) of transient testing with a dynamic load, such as when drawing fast-edged current steps that rise from near minimum to near maximum and fall from near maximum to near minimum, or whatever else you might have, perhaps something that might be a more-appropriate transient test, I would be interested in seeing them.

The Super Reg is most often used with preamps -- and the load is pretty much constant -- noise is a more important consideration.

If you must do transient testing you can take a look at this application note by Jim Williams of Linear Tech:
http://www.linear.com/pc/downloadDoc...1,P1754,D17358
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 05:17 PM   #524
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
It was a good application note. I have never seen it of some peculiar reason.
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2007, 05:19 PM   #525
Electrons are yellow and more is better!
diyAudio Member
 
peranders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally posted by peranders
By this you mean
I'm a bit slow, now I'll get it
__________________
/Per-Anders (my first name) or P-A as my friends call me
Tube Buffered Gainclone in work |Thread || Diamond buffer |Thread for the group buy | Wiki
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:14 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2