Super Regulator, collecting the facts

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Curious About The Benefits.......

Fred Dieckmann said:
"Not much, I suppose. <100 mA?"


>100 mA DC. The regulators will work better with load currents above 100 mA
than low current loads like 10 or 20 mA.

There is an extremely simple explanation for this for anybody who knows a little electronics.....

Anybody?

Mainly a question about how much this kind of regulator circuit improves sonics of what kinds of line (or other) stages, and with respect to other regulator techniques.
Out to what power is easily achievable ?.

Eric.
 
Re: More confused than I thought......

Fred Dieckmann said:
"Not much, I suppose. <100 mA?"
>100 mA DC. The regulators will work better with load currents above 100 mA
than low current loads like 10 or 20 mA.

There is an extremely simple explanation for this for anybody who knows a little electronics.....

Anybody?
Not very suitable for a normal transistor amp then or a couple of opamps?
 
Re: Re: More confused than I thought......

Fred Dieckmann said:
"Not much, I suppose. <100 mA?"


>100 mA DC. The regulators will work better with load currents above 100 mA
than low current loads like 10 or 20 mA.

There is an extremely simple explanation for this for anybody who knows a little electronics.....

Anybody?


Higher current means higher gm of the pass transistor means
higher loop gain. Culd that be what you mean?


peranders said:

Not very suitable for a normal transistor amp then or a couple of opamps?

A dummy resistor to ground will solve that. It's just a regulator,
not a nuclear power station. :)
 
Resistance from a dummy...

Preloading regulators with a resistor is a VERY common technique and written about in TAA probably 15 years ago. This circuit was origionally developed as a regulator for low current preamp type circuits! Are Jan, Andy, and I the only ones that read all the TAA articles?

Christer,
Not quite on the guess, but you getting warmer*. The other way to lower the output impedance instead of increasing the amount of negative feedback (or increasing the open loop voltage gain, that is) would be to do what?


Peace,
Fred

*So is the regulator at increased current loading now that I think of it....
 
ta fel på avbild

"Fred, where does the picture come from?"

Sorry wrong schematic......
 

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Re: Resistance from a dummy...

Fred Dieckmann said:
Preloading regulators with a resistor is a VERY common technique and written about in TAA probably 15 years ago. This circuit was origionally developed as a regulator for low current preamp type circuits! Are Jan, Andy, and I the only ones that read all the TAA articles?

I don't know if I've read them all, but I suspect not, which is
why I asked about the origin of that schematic. :)


The other way to lower the output impedance instead of increasing the amount of negative feedback (or increasing the open loop voltage gain, that is) would be to do what?

Let's see, the output impedance of an emitter follower is
Vt/I if ignoring the source impedance, so higher current means
lower open loop output impedance and, needless to say,
lower closed loop output impedance. However, this is just
the other side of the same coin as the gm stuff, so maybe
that's not what you are after either.



Peace,
Fred

:)
 
Fred Dieckmann said:
"Let's see, the output impedance of an emitter follower is Vt/I if ignoring the source impedance, so higher current means lower open loop output impedance and, needless to say, lower closed loop output impedance.

Just det! Den skall inte spela någon roll spänning förstärkas


Yes, I realized later the gm wasn't very important, since it is
only the closed-loop gain that lowers the output impedance.
Anyway, this was interesting. I hadn't thought about this
before you challenged us with the question.
 
Köttbullar is swedish for meatballs. Isn't that the swedish chefs
specialty? It's been a long time since I watched the muppet show,
though.

BTW, the swedish chef doesn't sound very swedish at all to
swedish ears, but I recently heard the story behind this
character. It turns out there was a swedisch guy from a part
of Sweden called Dalecarlia (Dalarna in swedish) who worked
in the US. People from Dalecarlia sound a bit funny even to
many of us swedes (funny in a nice way, I should add).
Apparently he had quite a strong such accent also when
speaking english which people found so funny that they decided
to try imitating his way of speaking english when creating the
chef. I suppose that is the reason he ended up as a swedish
chef, and not some other arbitrary nationality.
 
The many comments in this long thread have prompted me to reply. Hopefuly, this will clarify instead of obfuscate. I promise to stick to technical stuff.

It seems illogical to me that so many questions have been posted here, while they have already been answered in print elsewhere. The most recent (public) thing that I have written on the ongoing regulator design project appeared in Audio Electronics, issue 4/2000, page 8, etc. The title of the piece was "Improved Positive/Negative Regulators", and it was rather lengthy. The circuit topology of this article is *not* the same as the EDN one, also posted (in URL form) on this site.

Copyright issues aside for the moment, I don't agree with those who have scanned/snipped schematics from the AE article and posted them here. First off, you have no right to do so. Second, and more importantly, it destroys the context of the entire idea to post just a snippet, when there have been a dozen pages or more of text to accompany it, answering in great detail many of the queries posted here. In anyone needs to see this article, I can email you a PDF copy. It runs about 14megs.

Over time, I'll be happy to answer questions on the article either by email, or via this site.

Walt Jung
 
WaltJ said:
Copyright issues aside for the moment, I don't agree with those who have scanned/snipped schematics from the AE article and posted them here. First off, you have no right to do so. Second, and more importantly, it destroys the context of the entire idea to post just a snippet, when there have been a dozen pages or more of text to accompany it, answering in great detail many of the queries posted here. In anyone needs to see this article, I can email you a PDF copy. It runs about 14megs.


First, a warm welcome to the forum. It was a very postitive
surprise to suddenly see you posting here.

I would appreciate a copy of the article. Since I don't want
to post my email address in public for spam reasons, I tried
to mail you through this forum, but you seem to have deselected
the option to receive mails. Unless this is intentional, could you
please change it, so I can mail you my email address.

Since I posted a schematic, I suppose I might be among the
targets of you text above, so let me just say that the only
reason I posted it was that I hoped somebody would recognize
it and tell me which article it is from. I had not scanned it myself,
but found it posted on this forum a year or two back, so I had
no further info on it.
 
It seems illogical to me that so many questions have been posted here, while they hav

I couldn't agree more! the origional
articles have been referenced many times on this forum and I know of about
half a dozen people here that have bothered to read them. Now I suppose Mr. Jung will get about a hundred request for copies, which seems to be a real waste of his both his time and good will.

A High Quality Power Supply Regulator for Operational Amplifier Preamplifier
M. Sulzer TAA 2/1980

Regulators Revisited
M .Sulzer TAA 1/1981

Measuring Power Supply Output Impedance Part I
J. Breakall TAA 1/1983

Measuring Power Supply Output Impedance Part II
J. Breakall TAA 2/1983

Power Up
R. Marsh TAA 3/1983

A Wideband Power Supply
J. Didden TAA 1/87

Regulators For High-Performance Audio Part 1
W. Jung. TAA 1/95

I know of at least one member who had the initiative to actually go get a copy in his library when given the title.

Sorry for the annoyance Mr. Jung, and will not bait some of the more lazy here
to go read the actual material instead of dribbling it out of a few members of the forum, one agonizing question at a time.
 
Re: Re: It seems illogical to me that so many questions have been posted here, while they hav

johnferrier said:


Two rather large library systems: Seattle Public and King County Public Library don't subscribe to Audio Electronics. Perhaps, the UW library does. Though that is not as easily accessed.


JF


Or you can access >my< library shelf over my bed. Got all
the TAA back issues to 1970, though not a complete Glass
Audio or Speaker Builder series. And see how I implemented
a Jung regulator in my preamp.

:)

--Damon (waves to Walt Jung)
 
Re: Re: Re: It seems illogical to me that so many questions have been posted here, while they hav

Damon Hill said:

Or you can access >my< library shelf over my bed. Got all
the TAA back issues to 1970, though not a complete Glass
Audio or Speaker Builder series. And see how I implemented
a Jung regulator in my preamp.

:)

Okay, hold that thought, while I see if I can work that in over the next week or so. I think I can PM you, right?

I'm at the point were I'd like to start ordering part for my first (headphone) amplifier. Going back and forth between BUF634s and Walt Jung's buffer for op-amp. Also, need to decide between the SuperRegulator and possible alternatives (Linear Tech LT1963).


JF
 
It's hilarious that anyone would complain about lack of availability of Jung schematics. You aren't going to find them with this site's horrid search engine, but Jung himself has published his classic Cookbook, and Analog Device's op-amp applications book contains more designs than any person (save Jung himself) will be able to analyze in his lifetime.

I think the frustration lies in the lack of organized information about this stuff. I don't see how a newbie would have heard of the Analog Devices tome, or even Walt Jung for that matter.
 
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