Lol... where have I seen that before
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/181126-lt1431-dn2540n3-d44h11-dual-rail-reg.html
Yeah, I used an enhancement mode symbol since I had to add the depletion mosfet to LT Spice myself and was too lazy to create a new symbol, but notice the label - DN2540 - and the write-up. The TL1431 counts as reference + op amp.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl1431-ep.pdf
Mine is ground referenced though, not floating.
My post was just January of this year, so no prior art there on their years-old patent application.
So I would definitely give the Belleson two thumbs up!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/181126-lt1431-dn2540n3-d44h11-dual-rail-reg.html
Yeah, I used an enhancement mode symbol since I had to add the depletion mosfet to LT Spice myself and was too lazy to create a new symbol, but notice the label - DN2540 - and the write-up. The TL1431 counts as reference + op amp.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl1431-ep.pdf
Mine is ground referenced though, not floating.
My post was just January of this year, so no prior art there on their years-old patent application.
So I would definitely give the Belleson two thumbs up!
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United States Patent 6,989,659
Menegoli , et al. January 24, 2006
Low dropout voltage regulator using a depletion pass transistor
Abstract
A linear low dropout voltage regulator is described that makes use of a depletion mode NMOS pass transistor and of a PMOS transistor in series to the NMOS transistor and connected to its drain. The depletion NMOS transistor assures low dropout operations, while the series PMOS transistor allows the current regulation even under the condition of shorted load. The same PMOS transistor may be used to disable the current in the load without generating a negative voltage at the gate of the depletion pass transistor. This regulator is inherently stable without the need for an output capacitor in parallel to the load.
AND
United States Patent 6,005,378
D'Angelo , et al. December 21, 1999
Compact low dropout voltage regulator using enhancement and depletion mode MOS transistors
Abstract
A low dropout (LDO) voltage regulator for generating a well-regulated voltage which is stable with variations in load resistance and in supply voltage includes a non-complex reference voltage generator. In the preferred embodiment, the reference voltage generator is configured to function as an amplifier as well as a reference voltage generator. In one embodiment, a single gain stage LDO voltage regulator utilizes the single function reference voltage generator which is compared to a feedback voltage that is proportional to an output voltage. The feedback voltage and the reference voltage control two currents which are used to generate a control signal to a pass transistor. Depending on the supply voltage, the pass transistor either increases or decreases the current to an output terminal to raise or lower the output voltage until the output voltage equals the regulated voltage. In another embodiment, a two gain stage LDO voltage regulator utilizes the dual function reference voltage generator. The two gain stage LDO voltage regulator compares a gained signal instead of the reference voltage with the feedback voltage to generate the control signal to the pass transistor.
Menegoli , et al. January 24, 2006
Low dropout voltage regulator using a depletion pass transistor
Abstract
A linear low dropout voltage regulator is described that makes use of a depletion mode NMOS pass transistor and of a PMOS transistor in series to the NMOS transistor and connected to its drain. The depletion NMOS transistor assures low dropout operations, while the series PMOS transistor allows the current regulation even under the condition of shorted load. The same PMOS transistor may be used to disable the current in the load without generating a negative voltage at the gate of the depletion pass transistor. This regulator is inherently stable without the need for an output capacitor in parallel to the load.
AND
United States Patent 6,005,378
D'Angelo , et al. December 21, 1999
Compact low dropout voltage regulator using enhancement and depletion mode MOS transistors
Abstract
A low dropout (LDO) voltage regulator for generating a well-regulated voltage which is stable with variations in load resistance and in supply voltage includes a non-complex reference voltage generator. In the preferred embodiment, the reference voltage generator is configured to function as an amplifier as well as a reference voltage generator. In one embodiment, a single gain stage LDO voltage regulator utilizes the single function reference voltage generator which is compared to a feedback voltage that is proportional to an output voltage. The feedback voltage and the reference voltage control two currents which are used to generate a control signal to a pass transistor. Depending on the supply voltage, the pass transistor either increases or decreases the current to an output terminal to raise or lower the output voltage until the output voltage equals the regulated voltage. In another embodiment, a two gain stage LDO voltage regulator utilizes the dual function reference voltage generator. The two gain stage LDO voltage regulator compares a gained signal instead of the reference voltage with the feedback voltage to generate the control signal to the pass transistor.
To file a US Patent application is a few hundred dollars. You can spend as much as you wish on attorneys of course . If granted, a patent gives you little more than a right to file law suits.
Mr. Pease's Electronic Design column on ripple rejection and the Philbrick 5910 was submitted as prior art with the patent app. I believe the first place I saw it was on your web site.
. If granted, a patent gives you little more than a right to file law suits.Mr. Pease's Electronic Design column on ripple rejection and the Philbrick 5910 was submitted as prior art with the patent app. I believe the first place I saw it was on your web site.
This thread died kind of quick. If nothing else , some insight on actual performance of a number of regulators. I did not see any reference to the Liner Tech regulators. LT1963 etc. A bit more advanced than 317's. Where do we stand with "simple" regulators where space does not allow some of the more exotic designs? Has anyone done any measurements of amplifier performance with different regulators. Say the current hot National Op amp or some generic discrete buffer.
I would love to drop a pair of Bellseons in some of my stuff, but the price is about twice what I would put out without some much more convincing evidence of being a fully sufficient regulator. To put it into perspective, I recently picked up a Hafler 110 preamp for less than a pair of these.
I would love to drop a pair of Bellseons in some of my stuff, but the price is about twice what I would put out without some much more convincing evidence of being a fully sufficient regulator. To put it into perspective, I recently picked up a Hafler 110 preamp for less than a pair of these.
They got their patent:
Superpower Super Regulator by Belleson
Phase margin in this chart (100kHz to 20MHz):
Interesting paper discussing Phase Margin and Stability:
http://cbasso.pagesperso-orange.fr/Downloads/Papers/Phase margin and quality factor.pdf
Superpower Super Regulator by Belleson
Phase margin in this chart (100kHz to 20MHz):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Interesting paper discussing Phase Margin and Stability:
http://cbasso.pagesperso-orange.fr/Downloads/Papers/Phase margin and quality factor.pdf
Didn't see this thread before; just looked at the Belleson patent.
It seems to me that the one thing I haven't seen before is the way they power the error amp from Vo. That method requires the use of the depletion mode FET as the opamp can never provide more Vout than it's pos supply voltage which is the regulator Vo.
So why do they present the patent mentioning the depletion mode mosfet as if that is significant? I'm pretty sure I can build this concept without the depletion mode mosfet (although maybe not as elegant), so does that mean I can circumvent the patent? Not that I have an intention to do so, just curious to what you guys think.
Edit: Jack, what software is that in post # 71 above?
jan
It seems to me that the one thing I haven't seen before is the way they power the error amp from Vo. That method requires the use of the depletion mode FET as the opamp can never provide more Vout than it's pos supply voltage which is the regulator Vo.
So why do they present the patent mentioning the depletion mode mosfet as if that is significant? I'm pretty sure I can build this concept without the depletion mode mosfet (although maybe not as elegant), so does that mean I can circumvent the patent? Not that I have an intention to do so, just curious to what you guys think.
Edit: Jack, what software is that in post # 71 above?
jan
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That's the Bode 100 software -- I thought you were going to write some code to do the same thing with your HP 3577.
/OT on
I thought so too
Sold the 3577 ages ago.
Also sold my AP S1, trying to get money together for a Bode 100 myself.
Had a nice chat at AES with Harry Dymond who was very enthousiastic on the Bode 100.
Last time I looked it was still euro 3500 or so...
/OT off
jan
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