The Belleson Superpower, the ultimate voltage regulator ... ? - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Power Supplies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th March 2011, 05:23 AM   #11
iko is offline iko  Canada
diyAudio Moderator
 
iko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Right, size is what it is. Don't forget heat and power consumption; those are also excessive with a shunt reg. But hey, there's not replacement for displacement right? It's not for everyone, that's for sure. Some people are fine with Priuses That's the beauty of diy, everyone chooses whatever scratches their obsessive audio itch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2011, 01:44 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
stormsonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
@iko
you're flaterring me, thank you. I'm not young any more, but still not THAT old to be called Mr.

@MatchASM
you can get order of magnitude (10x) lower broadband noise (20Hz-20kHz) without big sweating. If you want to stick with LM317 and improve it, then invest 0,5€ for transistor, few resistors and cap and go to this excellent thread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2011, 08:43 PM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
Tomorrow I'll run the LR and Z test on the Belleson.
OK -- here's the PSRR test of several regulators mentioned -- the Belleson is consistent, but hardly outstanding.

I used a Jensen 600:600 ohm transformer -- very flat from a few Hz to 200kHz -- it's the model AP uses in their PSRR test. The injected voltage was 1V RMS.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Belleson_LR.gif (30.6 KB, 1462 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2011, 11:12 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormsonic View Post
you can get order of magnitude (10x) lower broadband noise (20Hz-20kHz) without big sweating. If you want to stick with LM317 and improve it, then invest 0,5€ for transistor, few resistors and cap and go to this excellent thread.
Thanks for the link; by coincidence I stumbled on that same schematic earlier today after some Googling (TM) [will always sound better than "Binging"...].

The 10x improvement refers to this circuit, no? It seems to me that, in general, the output voltage noise can be made arbitrarily low by putting zillions of voltage references in parallel. So really, the challenge lies in output voltage noise versus consumed bias current (which is what the Dieckmann circuit seems to do quite well).

Now that I think about it, 4kTR and 4kT/gm noise depend on temperature, so at some point it must make more sense to add a refrigerator rather than another million voltage references. I have not seen anybody do this, so I guess at some point even the most critical audiophile is happy with the remaining noise floor?

--
Greetz,
MatchASM
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2011, 11:19 PM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
johnferrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
OK -- here's the PSRR test of several regulators mentioned -- the Belleson is consistent, but hardly outstanding.
Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to measure and post !


.
__________________
Michael Gazzaniga - "The arts are not frosting but baking soda."
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2011, 11:21 PM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
the Belleson is consistent, but hardly outstanding
Excellent work; thank you very much.

It seems from these plots that the teddyreg is the best performing candidate. I actually expected it to be much better than -100dB. Is there some X-talk between input and output (i.e., does better shielding help...)? I would be very interested in the addition of an LM317 preregulator configuration to the list of traces; when properly soldered, it should also be able to do -100dB.

--
Greetz,
MatchASM
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2011, 01:41 AM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
stormsonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
The 10x improvement refers to this circuit, no?
No, it refers to Belleson.

Quote:
It seems to me that, in general, the output voltage noise can be made arbitrarily low by putting zillions of voltage references in parallel.
No, you just need to filter out the noise of your single voltage reference. High frequency noise is easy to filter, much harder to filter out low frequency. I won't go into details, there are very detailed, great articles and examples on Walt Jung's website. A MUST read.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2011, 02:16 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
We have to fold this discussion into some SuperReg thread -- I got in some Jung-Didden boards a few weeks back but had run out of D44H11 transistors to solder them up -- would like to compare them to all the above. Jung used a somewhat different methodology for the Line Rejection test, so an apples to apples comparison requires that they all go on the same board of nails.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2011, 01:33 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatchASM View Post
Now that I think about it, 4kTR and 4kT/gm noise depend on temperature, so at some point it must make more sense to add a refrigerator rather than another million voltage references.
Or a Peltier device.

Liquid helium will help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2011, 02:28 PM   #20
BMW850 is offline BMW850  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
BMW850's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North East of the Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
We have to fold this discussion into some SuperReg thread -- I got in some Jung-Didden boards a few weeks back but had run out of D44H11 transistors to solder them up -- would like to compare them to all the above. Jung used a somewhat different methodology for the Line Rejection test, so an apples to apples comparison requires that they all go on the same board of nails.
Hi jackinnj,

How do you think about to compare also the Sallas regulator, you find this tread here:
The simplistic Salas low voltage shunt regulator

Regards,
Rudy
__________________
It’s not what you know, but who you know “and where they are”
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High Voltage Huge Storage CAPS for that Ultimate Valve Amp col Tubes / Valves 0 11th December 2009 03:37 AM
Ultimate Amp with High offset voltage glen65 Car Audio 4 16th October 2007 12:19 AM
Ultimate shunt regulator Uchi Deshi Power Supplies 8 5th May 2006 08:16 PM
Voltage regulator annex666 Solid State 1 27th August 2003 03:50 PM
Voltage regulator help! kasra Solid State 7 23rd November 2002 03:07 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2