AC regeneration

[hags]

I'd be curious to know if anyone has checked DC quality after rectification when a high end, high dollar AC regeneration/power conditioner is used versus DC when one isn't used.

It doesn't seem like purifying AC waveforms prior to your components would result in any real or at least audible benefit. However, if you believe the testimony of those who manufacture(of course) these devices and their customers the difference is like night and day.

Thoughts, opinions, experiences???????

[Rembrant]

In my limited experience, I would say that the actual wave form would have little to do with final sound quality. The best you could hope for is consistency. I bet most people would be hard pressed to hear a difference in a piece of equipment plugged into a modified sine wave inverter and one plugged into a true sine wave source. Think about it, 50/60Hz is in the audible range and doesn't seem to cause much trouble. If you where building a SMPS for a car amp, you wouldn't deliberately choose 60Hz as a switching frequency.

[audiojoy]

What ever the physics, there is a very significant audible difference when the same piece of equipment is heard with and without an ac regenerator. I have used Accuphase and PS audio, and built my own very simple and cheap version, which I have already described in these forums. They all seem to bring detail, clarity/transparency to the proceedings but with a slight loss of tonal warmth/colours. PRAT from what i remember was not affected overall. I personally believe the emotion in the music is only fully taken on board when the tonal range and 'warmth' of those colours is heard so i am not so keen on them They are apparently very beneficial when used on ac run turntable motors.

[wakibaki]

Originally Posted by hags

I'd be curious to know if anyone has checked DC quality after rectification when a high end, high dollar AC regeneration/power conditioner is used versus DC when one isn't used.

Isn't it a question of faith? Wouldn't testing invalidate the whole idea? And what kind of tests would you apply? Maybe the same one we've all agreed on for the existence of God?

You've got something totally bassackwards there. I know it's Christmas but you're really stretching the old charitible impulse with that one...

w

[hags]

Originally Posted by wakibaki

Isn't it a question of faith? Wouldn't testing invalidate the whole idea? And what kind of tests would you apply? Maybe the same one we've all agreed on for the existence of God?

You've got something totally bassackwards there. I know it's Christmas but you're really stretching the old charitible impulse with that one...

w

What are you talking about?

As I understand it, there are products on the consumer/retail market that take the AC from you wall outlet and create a more ideal 60 hz waveform at a given voltage.

My question is simple, does/do AC regeneration/power conditioning work with regard to improving equipment performance, either objectively or subjectively?

Since the end result is almost always DC does it matter?

What is difficult to understand about that?

What is invalidated by testing? You cant' measure transformer behavior? You can't measure DC quality? Rectifier behavior? Impulse, waveform turn on/turn off pulses etc...............?

[analog_sa]

Originally Posted by hags

a high end, high dollar AC regeneration/power conditioner

Most consumer audio is not equipped with any meaningful AC filtering in the MHz/GHz region. And for this reason any additional improvement in the incoming AC is audible. Not necessarily as an improvement as regenerators are usually current limited and in some applications this is critical.

My first hand experience has only been with simple diy regenerators used as AC motor supplies or in preamps. Despite the obvious improvements (especially with the motor supply) i could still hear different PS cords powering the regenerator. So, clearly the quality of these devices varies. I think a "never connected" PS seems like a simpler, more realistic approach towards improving DC quality and it doesn't involve inherent current limiting.

[hags]

Originally Posted by audiojoy

What ever the physics, there is a very significant audible difference when the same piece of equipment is heard with and without an ac regenerator. I have used Accuphase and PS audio, and built my own very simple and cheap version, which I have already described in these forums. They all seem to bring detail, clarity/transparency to the proceedings but with a slight loss of tonal warmth/colours. PRAT from what i remember was not affected overall. I personally believe the emotion in the music is only fully taken on board when the tonal range and 'warmth' of those colours is heard so i am not so keen on them They are apparently very beneficial when used on ac run turntable motors.

That's why the question. The same thing can and is said about AC cords.
In my opinion once you meet a few basic criteria, eg, conductor size/quality, dielectric material, sheild, etc..and quality standards for AC cords anything more is voodoo or eye candy.

[analog_sa]

Now i get it. You are trying to start another cable thread but this time about regenerators.

DC is DC and bits are bits

[Eva]

The flat tops of mains sine wave together with line inductance usually result in lower rectifier peak currents and lower ripple on rectified DC than with a true sine input waveform from a low impedance source, such as a regenerator.

RF above 30Mhz is easily radiated and is in the air as easily as in the wires. If audio gear is not designed properly, there is not much to do with filtering.

For example, in my latest amplifiers you can talk on the cell phone near them without any audible disturbance (with no shielding enclosure). All PCBs use SMD and continuous ground planes, though, and most of the signal processing is differential/balanced, since these amplifiers are class D and the first interference that they must reject is their own EMI. The feedback circuits around critical op-amps are designed to avoid rectification of picked up RF at their input transistors, too.

[hags]

Originally Posted by analog_sa

Now i get it. You are trying to start another cable thread but this time about regenerators.

DC is DC and bits are bits

Not at all. I thought perhaps that someone had put a probe to one or another of these AC accessories.