paralleling film caps with electrolytic caps - Page 28 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Power Supplies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th December 2011, 08:59 PM   #271
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
5mils (0.005") & 20mils (0.02") !
Are we to start designing >4layer boards to take advantage of the ground planes that we don't yet know how to design for audio frequencies?
1mm PCB is ~ 40mil and 1.6mm PCB is ~ 60mil.
I think that I will probably at least try four layers, just for the sake of a much better layout, and in order to have a ground plane or two, and to have power planes (or planes of power and signal). Even if the capacitance between layers isn't significant, the inductance of the ground connections should be lower than otherwise.

The only serious drawback that I can think of for DIY, off hand, is that through-hole components would be problematical, in most cases, unless access holes were made in the outer layers for hand soldering on inner layers. But maybe access holes would work OK, for the large-pitch devices that people here often work with, and especially with thin boards and layers.

Looking at Henry Ott's book, for a four-layer board I rather like the idea of ground on the outer two layers and signal+power on each of the inner two layers.

Homemade versions of those could also be done, with two double-sided boards and an insulating sheet. But it would be a lot different than a layout for a fab house so that in general a layout for a professional fab job usually could not be adapted to the type of home made process that I'm thinking about, unless the designer took the time to make it so that it could, assuming it was possible.

What I would probably do is surface-mount as much stuff as possible. And for DIY I think that just about any through-hole part that has flat pins that are near the edge of the part could also be used as a surface-mount part (and maybe even many leaded parts as well).

Wow, imagine not having traces or pins always in the way at critical points, when routing a board!

On the other hand, for most chipamp boards, the layout might be improved enough just by using a two-sided board with one side as a ground plane.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 09:14 PM   #272
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
ΘΘdefg╚,⌠X╝

AHH!
"Alt" + 0233 on the numbers keypad gives

Thankyou.

Where can I find a table of these other symbols/letters when "insert" is not available?
How can I make Alt-181 produce the "micro" sign instead of ╡, which on my screen looks like a vertical bar with two line segments protruding to the left, near the center? Is it just a matter of selecting a different font (which I also can't seem to do, at least not for "window" text)?

Last edited by gootee; 18th December 2011 at 09:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 10:32 PM   #273
AKN is offline AKN  Sweden
No snake oil
diyAudio Member
 
AKN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In the middle of Sweden
Send a message via MSN to AKN
Quote:
Originally Posted by gootee View Post
How can I make Alt-181 produce the "micro" sign instead of ╡, which on my screen looks like a vertical bar with two line segments protruding to the left, near the center? Is it just a matter of selecting a different font (which I also can't seem to do, at least not for "window" text)?
I wonder that myself given the table I linked to. Although, straight from my memory; alt + 230 =
__________________
/ Anders
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 11:07 PM   #274
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1


Woo hoo!! F!!

√(b - 4ac)! ≤ ♪ ♫

This chart seems to be correct, but not complete:

Extended ASCII Display Characters
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2011, 05:45 AM   #276
gootee is offline gootee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Indiana
Blog Entries: 1
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...bypass&ct=clnk
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2011, 05:49 AM   #277
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Mostly in the right direction, though there are a few errors like the trace resistance and inductance being in parallel (how'd they miss that one?) and the assumption op amps operate in class B. You'll find many of the same issues arise in switchmode supply design. Basically it's a tradeoff between supply performance and the supply phase yo yoing from capacitive to inductive---the lower the ESR, the lower the supply's self induced ripple but the greater the phase swings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2011, 10:04 AM   #278
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
The table is too big to fit on a "post it", stuck to the side of my 27" monitor !
How the .... do we oldies remember all those ascii codes?
Quote:
≤ ♪ ♫
music to your ears?

BTW,
I have down loaded those ascii codes before, but I can't remember where I saved them !
__________________
regards Andrew T.

Last edited by AndrewT; 19th December 2011 at 10:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2011, 10:10 AM   #279
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Quote:
Originally Posted by twest820 View Post
.......... it's a tradeoff between supply performance and the supply phase yo yo-ing from capacitive to inductive---the lower the ESR, the lower the supply's self induced ripple, but the greater the phase swings.
I have read this three times now.
I think someone will have to help me through understanding the message therein.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2011, 01:03 PM   #280
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The City, SanFrancisco
Quote:
Originally Posted by twest820 View Post
Mostly in the right direction, though there are a few errors like the trace resistance and inductance being in parallel
I believe these parallel resistors are modeling skin effect losses (there is also a series R, at least in the figures I saw).

I havent read through all these articles but am looking forward to, thanks for posting them. I think this get covered some but it still seems to me that despite getting fairly complicated simulation circuits the hardest part is what Gootee is attempting to do which is to determine the required minimum impedance throughout the entire frequency range, not just audio.

Thanks
-Antonio
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does someone know these electrolytic caps? 12 Cents Parts 4 25th November 2005 09:26 AM
Paralleling small value caps with large value PS caps xyrium Power Supplies 16 14th October 2005 04:06 PM
Electrolytic Caps jhead Parts 0 21st April 2004 10:11 PM
More Electrolytic Caps MRehorst Swap Meet 3 26th December 2002 10:56 PM
FILM Caps to assist Big ELYT Caps gromanswe Parts 0 9th July 2002 08:16 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:45 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2