Go Back   Home > Forums > > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Planet 10 hifi Home of the Frugal-phile™ - Planet 10 HiFi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th May 2016, 02:20 PM   #1
tipex is offline tipex  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Question Some questions about the Frugel Horn design

Hello!

I'll build a FHXL for a pair of Alpair 10.3.
I already have the plans (thanks, Dave!).

But I'd like to know how (and why) they work!
I think it's better to build something when you know -a little bit- why you are doing it that way.

What's the function of the "closed horn"/pyramid part (marked in red) ?
Why do it has to be filled in with isolation material (whool, pillows...) ?
Click the image to open in full size.

What's the function of the curve of the lateral pannels (marked in green) ?
Click the image to open in full size.

Where is it better to place the speaker connector?

Thank you!
Tipex

Last edited by tipex; 12th May 2016 at 02:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2016, 08:10 AM   #2
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Some questions about the Frugel Horn design
FH are tapped horns … the pointy part is the part of the horn above the driver.

The curved back is an inovation from Ron Clarke that makes the highly rectangular mouth "look" more like an ideal circle.

We like putting the terminals on the back at or slightly above the top of the internal partition.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2016, 06:47 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
One of the design goals of the FH family was to keep them as compact as possible while benefiting as much as possible from the gain below driver's mass corner provided by the rear horn load (Scott / Dave, did I word that more or less right?) Hence, as with many other BLH / labyrinth designs, the folding of the closed section that is acoustically above the driver.

The curved mouth was derived from some very elaborate fluid dynamics modelling performed by Ron Clarke with industry proprietary software, and was used on several other of his own designs, and which has been incorporated in many of Scott Lindgren's Woden and Spawn series of enclosures. After comparing our own builds of other small BLH designs such as Buschhorn, borrowed Hornshoppe horns, and at least one of the Fostex "recommended" designs - several of which have rather compromised final flares / mouth sizes for the intended bass extension - we've been convinced that the curve is not just aesthetic.

As I replied in a previous post on the same question, we put the inputs near the top of the rear panel to keep the length of internal wiring as short as possible, and use terminal cup that are externally mounted, which make for a very easy dressing of wires tucked between seams of felt lining as shown on the drawings.
__________________
kinda burnt out - taking a break
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 06:13 PM   #4
tipex is offline tipex  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Thank you very much for your answers,

It's just that in my mind, a horn starts with the speaker in one end, and finishes with the mouth in the other end. Here the speaker is in the middle of the horn.
That's why I don't understand how the "pointy part" (red) can work, if its not by resonance

Thanks again,
I'm learning lots of things in this forum!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 10:37 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Think of the sub-class of loudspeakers designed to operate on quarter wave principles (as opposed to accidentally doing so) as a continuum from the several varieties of "TL" - transmission lines, through TQWP (a la Voigt) to some of the more recent tapped horns - including the FH designs. All of them "work" by using resonant behavior - or at least attempting to do so.

If it's not already been recommended, spend a few lost days consuming and attempting to digest Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design

While their individual approaches / targeted design goals may vary, many of the advanced amateur / small commercial speaker builders frequenting this forum use Martin's worksheets as a fundamental tool in their design kit.
__________________
kinda burnt out - taking a break
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:15 AM   #6
sarathssca is offline sarathssca  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Hence, as with many other BLH / labyrinth designs, the folding of the closed section that is acoustically above the driver.
Could you please give some more info regarding difference between other BLH designs where we have a series of straight barriers on the back of the speaker like a maze / labyrinth , expanding from the back of the speaker driver and opening at the back or front of the speaker box?

From the above reply from Dave, i could relate the closed pyramid (marked in red in above picture) as a folded half of BIB design, which is above the speaker driver.. is my understanding correct?
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2017, 12:02 AM   #7
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Some questions about the Frugel Horn design
The taper of the FHs is more complex than a BIB, and they have the choke before the big mouth, the curve of which makes it look more like a square than it is. It is similar to the BIB in that they are taped horns with the driver placed partway along the horn.

The other kid of horn has an air-cavity which loads into a restricted mouth and expands towards the mouth. The horn can be smooth, which allows greater frequency response, or stepped (Olson/Nagaoka) where every fold acts as a low pass filter reducing the HF coming out the mouth.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Some questions about the Frugel Horn designHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frugel-Horn Mk3 Builds & Build Questions planet10 Full Range 1314 12th December 2017 06:09 PM
2 frugel horn mk3 questions evanc Planet 10 hifi 4 28th February 2015 10:03 AM
FE108EZ in a Frugel-horn? jjcarr Full Range 9 15th February 2015 03:41 PM
Frugel Horn kp93300 Planet 10 hifi 8 14th September 2013 07:08 PM
Some questions on horn design e-side Multi-Way 9 28th May 2007 06:26 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2017 diyAudio
Wiki