Musiklava - I am burning to "hear" what those Alpair drivers sound like. Is there a notable difference/improvement over the preferred FF85WK drivers?
I am planning and budgeting hard on this side to build FHL's and an ACA amp - sounds like a good combo.
- Jerry
Hi diyRookie,
I completed breaking-in the Alpair 5.2 drivers some days ago. To date they've done some 250 hours in ~3 litre vented and undamped enclosures. Even in these, while the drivers were opening up, one could make out their true capabilities. They are indeed smooth and sound really great. Even I can't wait to mount them on the FHLs! :
I've almost completed building my second FHL pair. Only the finishing touches remain to be done. These will permanently house the Fostex FF85Wk drivers. Meanwhile I'll mount the Alpair 5.2s in the first pair and once everything is properly set up and tuned we can do a formal A-B comparison of both the different drivers. So I guess you’ll have to wait for some more time….
Why don’t you go ahead with your FHL build? You won’t regret it. The ACA sounds great with the Fostex drivers. I haven’t yet tried the ACA-Alpair combination.
Alpair drivers for FHL
I am waiting to hear Musiklava79's findings of the Alpair 5.2 drivers. So far there is very little info on Alpair drivers in FHL's.
I did find another thread started by Dave (Planet10) a few months back, which was an attempt to try the Alpair 5.2 in different enclosures, including a FHL. Unfortunately no comparison or findings have been made (or posted) yet. I think it could be because Dave is suffering from ill health I read somewhere.
Guess we will just have to wait.
I am waiting to hear Musiklava79's findings of the Alpair 5.2 drivers. So far there is very little info on Alpair drivers in FHL's.
I did find another thread started by Dave (Planet10) a few months back, which was an attempt to try the Alpair 5.2 in different enclosures, including a FHL. Unfortunately no comparison or findings have been made (or posted) yet. I think it could be because Dave is suffering from ill health I read somewhere.
Guess we will just have to wait.
Dave is unfortunately out of action for the time being while he deals with health issues. We hope he will be sufficiently recovered to participate once again in a few weeks; in the meantime Chris, Cal and I are attempting to cover as best we can for non-commercial matters. Many thanks for your understanding.
Yes, it’s going to be a long and anxious wait for all of us. Dave has always been around for us and readily gave his advice and guidance to those from the DIY community that needed it.
All we can do is wait and pray - pray that Dave gets well soon and back on his feet. Pray for strength and fortitude for his family members during their time of distress....
Subwoofers for FHL?
Not sure if this topic deserves a new thread, but here goes:
What would a nice sub/helper woofer project be for the FHL? Browsing around the subwoofer threads is too overwhelming, and poses too many options and directions for me, since I have no experience with subwoofers.
I have read many times that the FHL’s can benefit from, or really need woofers. So, what are the diy woofer projects/options that will complement the FHL’s, and not overpower them? My questions are:
1. Are there woofers with also smallish footprints, since the FHL’s are such a nice size for smaller rooms?
2. Do you need 1 central woofer or 2 woofers – one for each FHL speaker?
3. How do you power them? Most FHL owners, I assume, have fairly low powered amplifiers like SET tube or ACA amps.
4. I read about stealth woofers somewhere (for the normal Frugal Horns I think), but will it work for the FHL’s?
It would be great if someone could help to steer me in the right direction please.
Thanks.
Not sure if this topic deserves a new thread, but here goes:
What would a nice sub/helper woofer project be for the FHL? Browsing around the subwoofer threads is too overwhelming, and poses too many options and directions for me, since I have no experience with subwoofers.
I have read many times that the FHL’s can benefit from, or really need woofers. So, what are the diy woofer projects/options that will complement the FHL’s, and not overpower them? My questions are:
1. Are there woofers with also smallish footprints, since the FHL’s are such a nice size for smaller rooms?
2. Do you need 1 central woofer or 2 woofers – one for each FHL speaker?
3. How do you power them? Most FHL owners, I assume, have fairly low powered amplifiers like SET tube or ACA amps.
4. I read about stealth woofers somewhere (for the normal Frugal Horns I think), but will it work for the FHL’s?
It would be great if someone could help to steer me in the right direction please.
Thanks.
I'll try to not ramble on much, a few comments, based on my own experience and - let's face it - biases.
The "Stealth" woofers were primarily intended for the original FH3s when used with FE126E, which can use all the LF reinforcement you can muster - particularly if a pair of roughly symmetrical corner boundaries aren't available. The enclosures are a sealed triangular prism with a single rear mounted CSS SDX7 per side, powered externally. They are mounted directly behind the rear mouth horn, with a minimum of 6" from a rear wall. The triangular shape is intended to act as deflectors to prevent reflections from a close rear boundary from mixing/modulating the horn's rear mouth output if enclosures aren't toed
in.
Any decent 6-8" woofer, of which there is now a abundance from which to choose would suffice.
To date the only drivers I've heard in the FHL are the FF85WK and Alpair5.2 - both of which I'd consider excellent performers, but neither are immune to the fundamental laws of physics, and can substantially benefit from high-passing and helper woofers.
I'm also a big fan of multiple (at least 2) "sub"woofers, which offer benefits of flexibility of placement to mitigate room modes, as well as higher crossover points. We've gone as high as 330Hz in our "FAST" builds, which of course means the woofers need to be co-located. With XO's much below 120Hz, a single woofer could be fine, and placement - while always room dependent -would be less critical.
Re powering the FH Lites, as we've been playing with FF85K & WK for longer than the A5.2, I've heard them in a wider range of enclosures and amp combinations. While the single digit power amps, both tube and SS can sound delightful - Nelson's ACA deserves something like a 6Moons Blue Moon award - eventually they will run out of headroom. My last session with the FHL / A5.2 was on my EL84 P/P pentode amp (George's Tubelab Simple PP) - 17watt or so; more than enough for listening levels cresting around 93dB (as measured with my iPhone app and old reliable Radio Shack digital meter) in approx 340sq ft moderately damped room.
The "Stealth" woofers were primarily intended for the original FH3s when used with FE126E, which can use all the LF reinforcement you can muster - particularly if a pair of roughly symmetrical corner boundaries aren't available. The enclosures are a sealed triangular prism with a single rear mounted CSS SDX7 per side, powered externally. They are mounted directly behind the rear mouth horn, with a minimum of 6" from a rear wall. The triangular shape is intended to act as deflectors to prevent reflections from a close rear boundary from mixing/modulating the horn's rear mouth output if enclosures aren't toed
in.
Any decent 6-8" woofer, of which there is now a abundance from which to choose would suffice.
To date the only drivers I've heard in the FHL are the FF85WK and Alpair5.2 - both of which I'd consider excellent performers, but neither are immune to the fundamental laws of physics, and can substantially benefit from high-passing and helper woofers.
I'm also a big fan of multiple (at least 2) "sub"woofers, which offer benefits of flexibility of placement to mitigate room modes, as well as higher crossover points. We've gone as high as 330Hz in our "FAST" builds, which of course means the woofers need to be co-located. With XO's much below 120Hz, a single woofer could be fine, and placement - while always room dependent -would be less critical.
Re powering the FH Lites, as we've been playing with FF85K & WK for longer than the A5.2, I've heard them in a wider range of enclosures and amp combinations. While the single digit power amps, both tube and SS can sound delightful - Nelson's ACA deserves something like a 6Moons Blue Moon award - eventually they will run out of headroom. My last session with the FHL / A5.2 was on my EL84 P/P pentode amp (George's Tubelab Simple PP) - 17watt or so; more than enough for listening levels cresting around 93dB (as measured with my iPhone app and old reliable Radio Shack digital meter) in approx 340sq ft moderately damped room.
Thank you for clarifying some of the doubts that I too had on this subject.
I usually listen to my music at moderate levels in a room that is almost similar in size to yours. Although I am happy with the levels of bass that the FHLs, Tabaq and similar speakers with 3" drivers have, there are times one does feel the need to augment the bass with (sub) woofers and similar arrangements.
Please don't stop rambling. It is from experiences (and biases) that we learn from each other - not just cold technical facts.
Thanks for your comments on the woofers, very helpful.
chrisb;4893583 To date the only drivers I've heard in the FHL are the FF85WK and Alpair5.2 - both of which I'd consider excellent performers said:
Well Chris, we have not heard your opinions (ramblings or biases) regarding the Alpair5.2 in the FHL's yet, compared to the FF85WK's. Would like to hear your views sometime, while we wait for musiklava...
Hi guys...comments/ideas on my new relation's Frugalhorns
Hi all (if not appropriate here, please move ....)
recently my wife's sister re-married. Her new husband's uncle Salah purchased and has completed building the Frugalhorn flatpak kit from Dave to very good (cosmetic) effect. I think he and his wife Karen are quite pleased with the cosmetics and sound.
He hasn't complained about lack of bass or any other concerns
I met him at my sister-in-law's wedding. It turns out he is a retired telecom engineer wanting to get back into audio. We started by talking about what he has and what sound he might be after. Size was/is a concern. (Once an audio salesman, always an audio salesman)
A friend gave him an old Sansui pair: a 555 integrated amplifier/666 tuner. He re-capped the amplifier and quite likes it as a stop gap. He is intending to build a Nelson Pass amplifier next, and I am sure they will be a nice pairing (anyone try a DIY J2 or F5 with them? thoughts?) or a good DIY tube amplifier.
Just thought I'd post this as Salah most likely won't.
As always thanks Dave and Chris.
Hi all (if not appropriate here, please move ....)
recently my wife's sister re-married. Her new husband's uncle Salah purchased and has completed building the Frugalhorn flatpak kit from Dave to very good (cosmetic) effect. I think he and his wife Karen are quite pleased with the cosmetics and sound.
He hasn't complained about lack of bass or any other concerns
I met him at my sister-in-law's wedding. It turns out he is a retired telecom engineer wanting to get back into audio. We started by talking about what he has and what sound he might be after. Size was/is a concern. (Once an audio salesman, always an audio salesman)
A friend gave him an old Sansui pair: a 555 integrated amplifier/666 tuner. He re-capped the amplifier and quite likes it as a stop gap. He is intending to build a Nelson Pass amplifier next, and I am sure they will be a nice pairing (anyone try a DIY J2 or F5 with them? thoughts?) or a good DIY tube amplifier.
Just thought I'd post this as Salah most likely won't.
As always thanks Dave and Chris.
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Nice Build!
I Can't make out from the attached image whether they are Frugel-Horn Mk.3s or Frugel-Horn Lites, though. Will appreciate it if you will clarify.
sorry for not mentioning...
The build is one of the most recent flat pack kits, so I assume MkIIIs. Shipped in late September or October of this year.
Nice Build!
I Can't make out from the attached image whether they are Frugel-Horn Mk.3s or Frugel-Horn Lites, though. Will appreciate it if you will clarify.
The build is one of the most recent flat pack kits, so I assume MkIIIs. Shipped in late September or October of this year.
of old Sansui gear and Frugalhorns
hi guys (sorry if off topic for this thread)
I had never owned any of the old (but quite good) Sansui gear, but do have a 8080DB receiver hiding somewhere in the house. Same as a 9090, (apparently even the transformers are the same), but with lower voltage on the rails and hence the lower power output. I think the AU555/TU666 were layer. I'll have to rely on a few of the (huh hmm) more senior members of the forums to comment. Chris? Both you and Dave were selling audio then, weren't you?
I recall in the late 1970's/early 1980's Sansui had some significant gear that was reportedly very good, and demo's a setup at one of our local stereo emporiums (in good old Speedy Creek, Sask.). They sold Sansui, Technics, Telefunken and Energy loudspeakers if you can believe that. Also in the late 1980's and early 1990's Sansui tried to revitalize their days of glory with the "Vintage" series of components which were very good sounding (from memory, I sold Sansui products at the time). More expensive than many of their contemporaries but superior sounding to much of the junk mass market stuff of the time.
I find the premise of the Lites quite interesting. Smaller (but still excellent) drivers in a smaller enclosure with he same level of performance as their larger brethren but with only the bottom end and ultimate loudness reduced?
As Chris stated, the creation of the enclosures is simply not as easy as scaling the enclosures down, the details regarding the development of flat packs are significant.
Glad to have stirred a few nice memories for some.
hi guys (sorry if off topic for this thread)
I had never owned any of the old (but quite good) Sansui gear, but do have a 8080DB receiver hiding somewhere in the house. Same as a 9090, (apparently even the transformers are the same), but with lower voltage on the rails and hence the lower power output. I think the AU555/TU666 were layer. I'll have to rely on a few of the (huh hmm) more senior members of the forums to comment. Chris? Both you and Dave were selling audio then, weren't you?
I recall in the late 1970's/early 1980's Sansui had some significant gear that was reportedly very good, and demo's a setup at one of our local stereo emporiums (in good old Speedy Creek, Sask.). They sold Sansui, Technics, Telefunken and Energy loudspeakers if you can believe that. Also in the late 1980's and early 1990's Sansui tried to revitalize their days of glory with the "Vintage" series of components which were very good sounding (from memory, I sold Sansui products at the time). More expensive than many of their contemporaries but superior sounding to much of the junk mass market stuff of the time.
I find the premise of the Lites quite interesting. Smaller (but still excellent) drivers in a smaller enclosure with he same level of performance as their larger brethren but with only the bottom end and ultimate loudness reduced?
As Chris stated, the creation of the enclosures is simply not as easy as scaling the enclosures down, the details regarding the development of flat packs are significant.
Glad to have stirred a few nice memories for some.