Let's give my pensil 10.3 a bit more grunt! - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Vendor Forums > Planet 10 hifi

Planet 10 hifi Home of the Frugal-phile™ - Planet 10 HiFi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th February 2015, 10:34 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Let's give my pensil 10.3 a bit more grunt!

Hi all,
almost a year ago i built a pair of pensil 10.3 which i'm really in love with... I was a complete newbie to woodworking, so my cabinets came out a little "eww" but they do sound (almost) perfect to me.

My system:
Thorens TD160 with rega rb300 arm
Graham Slee Gam-Amp 2SE pre-phono
My pc with an Asus Xonar Essence ST card for flac/wave files and CMP2 player
Yaquin MS-300B 8w p/c integrated amp
Pensils 10.3

My listening room is not huge and far from ideal as it's 3,5m x 3m.

Now to the "problem", after an "honeymoon phase" :P about a year long i start to sense a bit of lack of bass, not in term of extension but in terms of "slam", so i was thinking to build a subwoofer.

I want something fast and not boomy so, given the fairly small room, a sealed sub may be a good idea, I'm I correct?

After a bit of research i have found this:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/marka...ir-10-2-a.html

so it seems like a sealed CSS SDX10 sub would be good place to start...

Probably it'll also need some kind of amplification...

My amp doesn't have any way to connect to a power amp so i need an amp with a "speaker line in", probably something like the yung SD300 or the dayton SPA 250.

Do you have any project/advice/hint?

Thank you and sorry for my bad english!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2015, 05:01 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
If you're looking for the biggest overall gain in slam and dynamics, arranging for some type of HP for the amp driving the Alpairs would be time well spent.

The Dayton has a rudimentary HP filter on the speaker output (i.e. via 220mF EL cap - so you'd get an effective 6dB / octave at 90Hz with the 10.3)

There are probably dozens of candidate for the woofers, and a 10" or so sealed sounds like a good option - Vifa / Peerless or Dayton's own brand are popular for this type of application
__________________
this retirement thing is harder than it looks for some folks
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 02:51 PM   #3
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
+1 on the potential of a high pass filter to help integrate a subwoofer and get the most out of any full ranger
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 03:08 PM   #4
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
also i think with a high pass filter your 300B amp might have some more breathing room driving the full ranger
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 03:39 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson87 View Post
Yaquin MS-300B 8w p/c integrated amp
Pensils 10.3

My listening room is not huge and far from ideal as it's 3,5m x 3m.
I'd just get a bigger amp.

jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 03:51 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavia View Post
also i think with a high pass filter your 300B amp might have some more breathing room driving the full ranger

Definitely agree with that, but I don't think the Yaquin has a "processor" loop for easy insertion of HP filter, and he's using multiple sources and no separate line/pre-amp stage, so it can get a bit trickier. It would take some minor internal surgery to add a pair of caps after the Yaquin's volume control to provide the necessary filtering - relatively easily accomplished in PtP wiring, but can be more onerous with all PCB construction, which could the case here.

And Jeff's approach is not without merit either
__________________
this retirement thing is harder than it looks for some folks
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2015, 04:58 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
First of all thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavia
also i think with a high pass filter your 300B amp might have some more breathing room driving the full ranger
Adding an Hp filter to the yaquin PCB seems a "little" complicated, I have found the schematcs online: http://www.4tubes.com/SCHEMATICS/BY-...in-MS-300B.jpg, maybe it's easy and i just need directions who knows...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylkid58
I'd just get a bigger amp.

jeff
it may seem surprising, given the humble yaquin origins, but i still have to find something that sound better in that price range (i paid 400€ for it). It's mids and highs are so detailed and the bass is deep but maybe a little uncontrolled. While listening to jazz, acoustic, prog rock or even "rage against the machine" i get > 95 db at my listening position, i find it pretty loud and so does my neighbors (i live in an apartment). My average listening level is about 80-85 db, but i will try some more powerful amps.

i dont' listen to synthesized and highly mass produced genres that contain ridiculous amounts of exaggerated bass and i don't want to tear the building apart with HT explosions otherwise i would have kept the klipsch i had before the pensils. i just want some more "body" for the bass guitar E string, not too much as with the klipsch but a little more than now.

Maybe I sould have gone with the FAST route from the beginning but i wanted to keep it simple being my first build...

Last edited by markaudio; 12th February 2015 at 11:23 PM. Reason: quote removed from deleted post
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2015, 03:23 AM   #8
JoeyGS is offline JoeyGS  Philippines
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
The uncontrolled deep bass is a sign of inadequate power from your amp. I would tend to agree on, at least, trying on a more hefty power amp. Would be good to borrow first before buying.

I have tried running a 150watt per channel gainclone on a pair of 10p in a pensil enclosure ...... and you get all the grunt you need without any sign of distortion. The bass was full and articulate with effortless sound coming out of the pensil. No need for subs!
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2015, 08:55 PM   #9
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
For less than the cost of a pair of cheap 300B output tubes, you could find something like a Yuan Jing TPA3116 - a very decent sounding amp. I'm driving my upstairs speakers ( Mark Audio CHBW70/ERT26 MTMs with one, and it has all the power I could need for SPLs in the low 80s at max, in a 400 sq ft open plan living / dining / kitchen area.

The only downside to many of the budget amps of this class is the number of inputs - some may have on board DAC of dubious quality and multiple digital inputs, but usually no more than analog input . The upside of that is that they're so fricking cheap that a pair of them for bi-amping, and a small line stage / pre-amp can still be less than a tube SET.

Am I saying that a class D amp would satisfy all listeners more than a 300B or 2A3 SET, or EL84 P/P pentode - pick your absolute favorite tube - amp? of course not, that'd be silly
__________________
this retirement thing is harder than it looks for some folks
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2015, 05:19 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson87 View Post
Hi all,
almost a year ago i built a pair of pensil 10.3 which i'm really in love with... I was a complete newbie to woodworking, so my cabinets came out a little "eww" but they do sound (almost) perfect to me.

My system:
Thorens TD160 with rega rb300 arm
Graham Slee Gam-Amp 2SE pre-phono
My pc with an Asus Xonar Essence ST card for flac/wave files and CMP2 player
Yaquin MS-300B 8w p/c integrated amp
Pensils 10.3

My listening room is not huge and far from ideal as it's 3,5m x 3m.

Thank you and sorry for my bad english!!!
Hello Crimson (Guys).
I'm a 300B user myself (2 custom amps). Neither of mine would be described and "bass generous". We do know that Alpair 10's are bass capable (within common sense operation) and given Dr. Scott designed the Pensil 10's to go low (sub 40Hz from my memory)it maybe more an issue to do with your set-up and room size.

I'm not sure what you'll gain by adding woofers, subs or anything similar in your relative small room size (apart from irritating the neighbours).

Along with the other advice being given, could I suggest the following:

1 - Experiment with the damping material inside your Pensil boxes. I've used less than Dr. Scott initially recommends with pleasing. He does say adjusting the damping material volumes is likely needed as room size and acoustic conditions vary.

2 - Think about going to a more powerful amp. 300B's aren't known for "bass" appeal. They have qualities in other areas that appeal to a particular audience.

I have variety of amps, from SET valve (tube) amps to Sansui and Accuphase class A/B's. Each brings something different to the listing experience

The main thing to remember is your room size is moderate, the Pensil 10's more than adequate for it, so its more a question of "fine tuning" your set up, rather than dong something completely new. Unless you fancy making a new project

Thanks
Mark

In the meantime guys, I've escaped from my latest stay in the hospital, some minor surgery and no observable decease progression. I remain short on energy, varying daily, but this is to be expected. Thanks again for your on-going best wishes and support

Last edited by markaudio; 14th February 2015 at 05:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pensil 10.3 vs FHxl sajgre Planet 10 hifi 4 7th February 2015 07:47 PM
Pensil 10.2 Build (Yet Another) cogitech Planet 10 hifi 44 14th March 2013 03:36 AM
What amp for Pensil 10.2? dekiller Planet 10 hifi 15 5th March 2013 04:19 PM
Eeek! Pensil 10.2 Response Dips pizzachef Planet 10 hifi 8 10th June 2012 11:00 PM
Ryan's Pensil 10.2 Build Log CabinetMakerRyan Planet 10 hifi 90 21st January 2012 11:33 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:08 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2015 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2