Tight, articulate bass is the name of the game for the Kens.
However, the A12 sounded a tad bass shy and vocal forward to me in that particular design.
Need Info on Thread
Hi Dave,
I was reading a thread that you were involved with dealing with John, ScottMoose, and lots of others. The thread was 164 pages and around 1400 posts long and was dealing with the cabinet construction, CLD, solid wood cab's, etc. John was the fiesty one who loved the MDF, you with the Baltic Birch.
Problem is I can't find it!!!! Please help
Thanks,
Myles
Hi Dave,
I was reading a thread that you were involved with dealing with John, ScottMoose, and lots of others. The thread was 164 pages and around 1400 posts long and was dealing with the cabinet construction, CLD, solid wood cab's, etc. John was the fiesty one who loved the MDF, you with the Baltic Birch.
Problem is I can't find it!!!! Please help
Thanks,
Myles
Discussion info
Thanks Dave,
That is the one. I would like to read the Floyd E Toole book / document that you refer to that summarises his work over the last 30 years. I googled his name and got the names of all the papers, but never tried to actually see if they were on line. I thought a book with all his work would be ideal. Have you a link to an online version or a reference to where one might buy it.
Also, I was wondering if you had any material that you would be willing to release from your experiences with the Tangent organization.
This resonance discussion reminded me of the electrical / acoustical tools we use in the oil patch to help us drill through rock formations. Basically the less dense the rock is, the slower the transit time for the sonic wave to travel through the rock and return (ie: the sonic wave would bounce around off the poorly sorted rock grains in less dense rock and would travel through higher density rock, rock with well sorted grains in a faster transit time.
Do you think this transit time (if it happens with the wood panels) has any effect on the resonance theory????
Dave, thanks for all you info on the forum. I am pretty well convinced by your theories. The only thing I may do with the BB enclosure from time to time is attach a 1/4" - 3/8" layer of wood to the outside panels to give a different finish.
Used to live in Calgary (here right now for short time), now in Mexico / Crawford Bay in the Kooteneys (love it in the Koots). Rotate in and out to West Africa for work. DIY amp building and speaker enclosure building are going to be my retirement hobbies soon!!!!
Regards,
Myles
Thanks Dave,
That is the one. I would like to read the Floyd E Toole book / document that you refer to that summarises his work over the last 30 years. I googled his name and got the names of all the papers, but never tried to actually see if they were on line. I thought a book with all his work would be ideal. Have you a link to an online version or a reference to where one might buy it.
Also, I was wondering if you had any material that you would be willing to release from your experiences with the Tangent organization.
This resonance discussion reminded me of the electrical / acoustical tools we use in the oil patch to help us drill through rock formations. Basically the less dense the rock is, the slower the transit time for the sonic wave to travel through the rock and return (ie: the sonic wave would bounce around off the poorly sorted rock grains in less dense rock and would travel through higher density rock, rock with well sorted grains in a faster transit time.
Do you think this transit time (if it happens with the wood panels) has any effect on the resonance theory????
Dave, thanks for all you info on the forum. I am pretty well convinced by your theories. The only thing I may do with the BB enclosure from time to time is attach a 1/4" - 3/8" layer of wood to the outside panels to give a different finish.
Used to live in Calgary (here right now for short time), now in Mexico / Crawford Bay in the Kooteneys (love it in the Koots). Rotate in and out to West Africa for work. DIY amp building and speaker enclosure building are going to be my retirement hobbies soon!!!!
Regards,
Myles
Myles: the closest branch of 2 wholesale distributors from whom I normally buy by plywood ( Reimer Hardwoods and E Roko Distribution) are both located in Kelowna, then there's Windsor Plywood in Vernon - all would be a bit of a trek, particularly during in the next few months.
You might try googling or phoning lumber yards in Nelson.
FWIW, I've experienced a marked deterioration in quality of Russian Baltic Birch plywood over the past couple of years, not only in terms of higher number of bow-tie patches of larger knots, but also increased number of un-patched pinholes, as well as mineral stains, etc. None of those affect structural integrity - just aesthetics if you're planning finishing the material directly . More significantly however, is several cases of delamination of core that does not extend throughout the sheet - this is seldom visible until you cut into the sheet. When it's only a 10 minute drive to the dealer to replace defective goods is one thing, but ....
For this reason, we've switched to a very high qaulity (and higher priced) product by Murphy Plywood of Eugene Oregon - stocked by Roko in Victoria. The most commonly used thicknesses of these materials used in the commercial trades, and therefore stocked by wholesalers is 12 & 18mm, so we needed to place a mill order for a lift (32 sheets) of 15mm.
As for finishing materials over either type of the multi-ply, most of the photos of enclosures posted by Dave that are not clearly of solid wood construction, (the work of Bernie, a real wood-worker) would be simple paper backed veneer over plywood cases.
You might try googling or phoning lumber yards in Nelson.
FWIW, I've experienced a marked deterioration in quality of Russian Baltic Birch plywood over the past couple of years, not only in terms of higher number of bow-tie patches of larger knots, but also increased number of un-patched pinholes, as well as mineral stains, etc. None of those affect structural integrity - just aesthetics if you're planning finishing the material directly . More significantly however, is several cases of delamination of core that does not extend throughout the sheet - this is seldom visible until you cut into the sheet. When it's only a 10 minute drive to the dealer to replace defective goods is one thing, but ....
For this reason, we've switched to a very high qaulity (and higher priced) product by Murphy Plywood of Eugene Oregon - stocked by Roko in Victoria. The most commonly used thicknesses of these materials used in the commercial trades, and therefore stocked by wholesalers is 12 & 18mm, so we needed to place a mill order for a lift (32 sheets) of 15mm.
As for finishing materials over either type of the multi-ply, most of the photos of enclosures posted by Dave that are not clearly of solid wood construction, (the work of Bernie, a real wood-worker) would be simple paper backed veneer over plywood cases.
The book is recommended. It has context the papers lack.
Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms: Amazon.ca: Floyd Toole: Books
All that i have is stuff i have posted. I might have a few other anecdotes ourstanding thou.
Well worth exploring, there are still blanks to fill in, and shining lights from different directions tends to bring new information.
My dad was Gulf's senior production engineer in Calgary, and my brother is a highly respected mudman (out of Calgary but working the fields near where AB, BC, and the Yukon meet. He seemed to have an inate understanding of how EnABL and the enclosure concepts worked without knowing anthing about audio (except enjoying the music).
dave
Interesting info
Chris & Dave,
Thank you for the replys. Chris, I will definitely check out some of the mills around the Creston and Nelson area. My neighbor has been logging the area for years and may have some good ideas. Other wise I will check out Oregan in the spring time when I get back from Mexico.
Dave, thanks for the information about the book. Is that EnABL, the material that some of the Nirvana speaker owners were putting on the cones to try and make them sound better (vibration concerns).
Oil patch is a small world, glad to hear your brother is doing well. If you do not mind me asking, what is your brother name, as I worked in Canada oilpatch for quite some time.
Thank you both for your time,
Myles
Chris & Dave,
Thank you for the replys. Chris, I will definitely check out some of the mills around the Creston and Nelson area. My neighbor has been logging the area for years and may have some good ideas. Other wise I will check out Oregan in the spring time when I get back from Mexico.
Dave, thanks for the information about the book. Is that EnABL, the material that some of the Nirvana speaker owners were putting on the cones to try and make them sound better (vibration concerns).
Oil patch is a small world, glad to hear your brother is doing well. If you do not mind me asking, what is your brother name, as I worked in Canada oilpatch for quite some time.
Thank you both for your time,
Myles
I've done one set of ANs, Bud has done a few & i've done 100s of other drivers. We are pretty sure the treatment makes them sound better,
Robin Craig Dlugos (he grew up as Craig, but at work he is Robin i think)
dave
Dave, since Kokanee asked the question, it's a good a time as any to mention that while there's been rather a lot of bandwidth wasted and pixels recycled in the past 5 or so years on the subject, EnABL is not (solely) about treating what many folks would consider as gross "vibration concerns".
For me it was one of those "hear it and you will see" things, but not everyone who's heard it agrees, and of course, even more who haven't, don't.
For me it was one of those "hear it and you will see" things, but not everyone who's heard it agrees, and of course, even more who haven't, don't.
Chris, Dave,
Thanks for the heads up on EnABL. To me it sounds like a filter / collector mechanism. I agree with you Chris, the only way to get satisfaction is to try it. One question though: "Would you use it on drivers that are pretty well regarded already such as the MA - AP's, Omega's, etc, or is this made for budget type drivers to make them sound more enjoyable. I get enthused with experiments, but I adhere to the "broken wheel" theory.
Thanks for your time,
Myles
Thanks for the heads up on EnABL. To me it sounds like a filter / collector mechanism. I agree with you Chris, the only way to get satisfaction is to try it. One question though: "Would you use it on drivers that are pretty well regarded already such as the MA - AP's, Omega's, etc, or is this made for budget type drivers to make them sound more enjoyable. I get enthused with experiments, but I adhere to the "broken wheel" theory.
Thanks for your time,
Myles
Well it does. In our treatment process it is the pre & post-treatment -- what we do before & after EnABL that does most with any "vibration concerns".
What EnABL does mechanically/acoustically is still not understood, the resulting increase in DDR is clear thou.
dave
...
Anyway.
I am trying to scrape together a few bucks for the plane tickets, but I'm planning on bringing my family over to Vancouver Island some time next year. I will also put aside some funds for speakers for my old man, so I hope you will have some prototypes left until then I think he needs a sub or two too, but maybe he want's to build those himself.
Anyway.
I am trying to scrape together a few bucks for the plane tickets, but I'm planning on bringing my family over to Vancouver Island some time next year. I will also put aside some funds for speakers for my old man, so I hope you will have some prototypes left until then
I think he needs a sub or two too, but maybe he want's to build those himself.as Dave mentioned above, the objective "science" of how it works (or possibly could
) is not complete (but then true science never really is) - but for me there's no doubt that I hear deeper into the time and space of good recordings with ityup - the inventor has treated far more exotic drivers than I've ever heard
well, that's really two - and the "best" treatment / tweaks in the world won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear
...
Anyway.
I am trying to scrape together a few bucks for the plane tickets, but I'm planning on bringing my family over to Vancouver Island some time next year. I will also put aside some funds for speakers for my old man, so I hope you will have some prototypes left until then
It would be great to meet you. If there is anything i can do, or questions i can answer to help out, just ask.
1st choice for diyFEST next year is going to be 17-Aug if that is anywhere near your target date.
dave
Myles,
Given what it takes to do a driver, it only makes sense to do cheap drivers for fun or practise.
Most of the drivers i do are Fostex & Mark Audio, with a smattering of others -- and none have not benefitted. Bud usually does the exotica. Lowther, Feastrex, big buck Fostex.
dave
Mind numbing would be a good characterization. It would be a serious task to distill the key elements out of those 2 threads (actually 3 of them) A good idea of current practise can be had from looking at the most recent drivers in the kermit thread. I am always willing to field specif questions from those who would embark on doing up their own drivers.
Besides what i have heard over the last 5 (?) years, I have watched many people exposed to not-treated/treated, and seen body language that clearly indicates a greater sense of relaxation/enjoyment to have any doubt. It still amazes me that it can do what it does, and my analytical brain still has spells of it can't possibly work so i can sympathize with the nay-sayers that have never listened and are adament that it is snake-oil. But listening to it over & over does get tiresome.
I just keep giving people the opportunity to experience it themselves and the testimonials keep comimg in -- the treated drivers themselves seemingly the vector for the mass hallucination a growing number seem to be suffering from
dave
A good idea of current practise can be had from looking at the most recent drivers in the kermit thread. I am always willing to field specif questions from those who would embark on doing up their own drivers.Besides what i have heard over the last 5 (?) years, I have watched many people exposed to not-treated/treated, and seen body language that clearly indicates a greater sense of relaxation/enjoyment to have any doubt. It still amazes me that it can do what it does, and my analytical brain still has spells of it can't possibly work so i can sympathize with the nay-sayers that have never listened and are adament that it is snake-oil. But listening to it over & over does get tiresome.
I just keep giving people the opportunity to experience it themselves and the testimonials keep comimg in -- the treated drivers themselves seemingly the vector for the mass hallucination a growing number seem to be suffering from
dave
Sounds great. I'll be looking forward to it. I do not think I have any questions, never heard any enabl drivers before so it will be interesting. My target date is probably around june/july somewhere methinks.
...
As a sidenote, I like playing loud, do not know what sort of enabl drivers are the best for high spl. Maybe it would be nice to hear a 2way system (fr/sub) or something, but I trust you have whatever will put me in a state of awe.
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