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Old 25th October 2012, 08:14 AM   #21
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miniOnkens are designed to go as low as they go, but do that really well. A12doesn'tgo as lowas A10.2 or EL70.

dave
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Old 25th October 2012, 09:05 AM   #22
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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miniOnkens are designed to go as low as they go, but do that really well. A12doesn'tgo as lowas A10.2 or EL70.

dave
Tight, articulate bass is the name of the game for the Kens. However, the A12 sounded a tad bass shy and vocal forward to me in that particular design.
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Old 29th October 2012, 06:04 AM   #23
Kokanee is offline Kokanee  Mexico
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Default Need Info on Thread

Hi Dave,

I was reading a thread that you were involved with dealing with John, ScottMoose, and lots of others. The thread was 164 pages and around 1400 posts long and was dealing with the cabinet construction, CLD, solid wood cab's, etc. John was the fiesty one who loved the MDF, you with the Baltic Birch.

Problem is I can't find it!!!! Please help

Thanks,

Myles
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Old 29th October 2012, 06:11 AM   #24
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This one?

Discussion on what materials to build speakers out of

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Old 29th October 2012, 05:53 PM   #25
Kokanee is offline Kokanee  Mexico
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Default Discussion info

Thanks Dave,

That is the one. I would like to read the Floyd E Toole book / document that you refer to that summarises his work over the last 30 years. I googled his name and got the names of all the papers, but never tried to actually see if they were on line. I thought a book with all his work would be ideal. Have you a link to an online version or a reference to where one might buy it.

Also, I was wondering if you had any material that you would be willing to release from your experiences with the Tangent organization.

This resonance discussion reminded me of the electrical / acoustical tools we use in the oil patch to help us drill through rock formations. Basically the less dense the rock is, the slower the transit time for the sonic wave to travel through the rock and return (ie: the sonic wave would bounce around off the poorly sorted rock grains in less dense rock and would travel through higher density rock, rock with well sorted grains in a faster transit time.

Do you think this transit time (if it happens with the wood panels) has any effect on the resonance theory????

Dave, thanks for all you info on the forum. I am pretty well convinced by your theories. The only thing I may do with the BB enclosure from time to time is attach a 1/4" - 3/8" layer of wood to the outside panels to give a different finish.

Used to live in Calgary (here right now for short time), now in Mexico / Crawford Bay in the Kooteneys (love it in the Koots). Rotate in and out to West Africa for work. DIY amp building and speaker enclosure building are going to be my retirement hobbies soon!!!!

Regards,

Myles
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Old 29th October 2012, 07:56 PM   #26
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Myles: the closest branch of 2 wholesale distributors from whom I normally buy by plywood ( Reimer Hardwoods and E Roko Distribution) are both located in Kelowna, then there's Windsor Plywood in Vernon - all would be a bit of a trek, particularly during in the next few months.



You might try googling or phoning lumber yards in Nelson.

FWIW, I've experienced a marked deterioration in quality of Russian Baltic Birch plywood over the past couple of years, not only in terms of higher number of bow-tie patches of larger knots, but also increased number of un-patched pinholes, as well as mineral stains, etc. None of those affect structural integrity - just aesthetics if you're planning finishing the material directly . More significantly however, is several cases of delamination of core that does not extend throughout the sheet - this is seldom visible until you cut into the sheet. When it's only a 10 minute drive to the dealer to replace defective goods is one thing, but ....


For this reason, we've switched to a very high qaulity (and higher priced) product by Murphy Plywood of Eugene Oregon - stocked by Roko in Victoria. The most commonly used thicknesses of these materials used in the commercial trades, and therefore stocked by wholesalers is 12 & 18mm, so we needed to place a mill order for a lift (32 sheets) of 15mm.


As for finishing materials over either type of the multi-ply, most of the photos of enclosures posted by Dave that are not clearly of solid wood construction, (the work of Bernie, a real wood-worker) would be simple paper backed veneer over plywood cases.
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:01 PM   #27
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Floyd E Toole book... I thought a book with all his work would be ideal. Have you a link to an online version or a reference to where one might buy it.
The book is recommended. It has context the papers lack.

Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms: Amazon.ca: Floyd Toole: Books

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Also, I was wondering if you had any material that you would be willing to release from your experiences with the Tangent organization.
All that i have is stuff i have posted. I might have a few other anecdotes ourstanding thou.


Quote:
This resonance discussion reminded me of the electrical / acoustical tools we use in the oil patch to help us drill through rock formations. Basically the less dense the rock is, the slower the transit time for the sonic wave to travel through the rock and return (ie: the sonic wave would bounce around off the poorly sorted rock grains in less dense rock and would travel through higher density rock, rock with well sorted grains in a faster transit time.

Do you think this transit time (if it happens with the wood panels) has any effect on the resonance theory????
Well worth exploring, there are still blanks to fill in, and shining lights from different directions tends to bring new information.

Quote:
Used to live in Calgary (here right now for short time), now in Mexico / Crawford Bay in the Kooteneys (love it in the Koots). Rotate in and out to West Africa for work. DIY amp building and speaker enclosure building are going to be my retirement hobbies soon!!!!
My dad was Gulf's senior production engineer in Calgary, and my brother is a highly respected mudman (out of Calgary but working the fields near where AB, BC, and the Yukon meet. He seemed to have an inate understanding of how EnABL and the enclosure concepts worked without knowing anthing about audio (except enjoying the music).

dave
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Old 30th October 2012, 03:40 AM   #28
Kokanee is offline Kokanee  Mexico
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Default Interesting info

Chris & Dave,

Thank you for the replys. Chris, I will definitely check out some of the mills around the Creston and Nelson area. My neighbor has been logging the area for years and may have some good ideas. Other wise I will check out Oregan in the spring time when I get back from Mexico.

Dave, thanks for the information about the book. Is that EnABL, the material that some of the Nirvana speaker owners were putting on the cones to try and make them sound better (vibration concerns).

Oil patch is a small world, glad to hear your brother is doing well. If you do not mind me asking, what is your brother name, as I worked in Canada oilpatch for quite some time.

Thank you both for your time,

Myles
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Old 30th October 2012, 04:17 AM   #29
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Is that EnABL, the material that some of the Nirvana speaker owners were putting on the cones to try and make them sound better (vibration concerns).
I've done one set of ANs, Bud has done a few & i've done 100s of other drivers. We are pretty sure the treatment makes them sound better,

Quote:
Oil patch is a small world, glad to hear your brother is doing well. If you do not mind me asking, what is your brother name, as I worked in Canada oilpatch for quite some time.
Robin Craig Dlugos (he grew up as Craig, but at work he is Robin i think)

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Old 30th October 2012, 03:40 PM   #30
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Dave, since Kokanee asked the question, it's a good a time as any to mention that while there's been rather a lot of bandwidth wasted and pixels recycled in the past 5 or so years on the subject, EnABL is not (solely) about treating what many folks would consider as gross "vibration concerns".

For me it was one of those "hear it and you will see" things, but not everyone who's heard it agrees, and of course, even more who haven't, don't.
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