Just curious, what about my amplifier says that it's not as good or better than the offerings of today? Are the specs not up to par? I don't quite understand. Have you ever heard one (more specific: completely restored)? If so, what do you compare it to? Please elaborate on why and how it's not up to par.
let me take a stab at it:
Having heard literally several hundred Japanese designed / built SS amps from the mid 60's onwards by makers from Akai to Yamaha (including Marantz from the Superscope era, and who knows, maybe even this particular one), the sonic qualities could range from "edge of your seat great" (say Yamaha B1) to "yup, another amp" (most of the mid-range Pioneers, Sony, Kenwoods, Sansuis, etc I can recall).
It was always fun cherry picking through a mainstream manufacturer's product line trying to find one or two models that stood out for reasons other than, or in spite of shear horsepower or number of bells and whistles. The SA-7800 could be one of those nuggets, or not.
For example, one of my early favorites (mid-late 70's) that I wouldn't mind revisiting was the original Yamaha CA-1000 - no glowing meters and just as many superfluous controls / switches as the SA-7800 (even when bypassed, the switch contacts are still there), but I liked it, particularly in Class A.
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Thanks for the insight Chris. I'm new to the game but having had the opportunity to hear some very high end equipment from the members of my local audio society, I believe that my amplifier hangs in there with the others I've heard. Though it may not be on par with, say a 10k amplifier, I believe it sounds pretty darn good in comparison. I'd like to do a double blind test with some of the members' high end equipment to see just how much of a difference there really is when you're listening with your ears and not your eyes. Could be interesting.
Pretty much what Chris says. I sold these when they were new. We never sold anything we didn't like the sound of, but these "generic" Japanese amps were the 3rd string. You can find quite a few amps that sound better, and some of those are very modestly priced (and a lot more that sound worse).
Buzzforb, what were you using before the Pass clone?
dave
Buzzforb, what were you using before the Pass clone?
dave
I was using an AMC 3050a integrated amp and a Sony PS3 before hooking up my Alephs. By far the biggest improvement in sound accompanied the addition of the amplifier. The DAC, and preamp helped refine and improve what was already there. Stephen, I don't think anyone is trying to run down your equipment. I believe they are trying to convey the idea that with each additional improvement in your component chain, the sound will continue to evolve and improve. Any shortcomings you may hear, are more likely a result of other influences rather than the performance of the drivers. I believe that these drivers can stand against some of the best stuff out there, and I have sat in front of a $100,000 active Linn system. Considerr that you have spent appx. $300 to $400 on your speakers, that is a wonderous thing. Spend aanother $500 - $700 on preamp and amp, run J River in bit perfect playback and now you have a system that can go toe to toe with just about any out there. You will have officially gone 85% of the way and will spend most of your time and money making small improvements/adjustments like caps or perhaps, enclosure changes, like the Fonken from Dave. Listen to waht these guys have to say, from what I have read, they have taken the long road and have many years of experience that can be taken advantage of for the cheap price of a nice conversation. Sorry for the rant, just trying to help. I look forward to following your build and subsequent impressions. I am off to plan and save for my build of an F2 and some Fonkens.
May I humbly suggest some of the current crop of "T-amps", including the "Virtue-1", (which I have) are quite eye/ear opening for very modest $$'s.
I also have, among others, a Marantz 2230, which, though while fun, doesn't compare (in my system, with my ears) to the T-amp.
I think the gist of it all is that these drivers are capable of hanging in some pretty expensive company.
Best,don
I also have, among others, a Marantz 2230, which, though while fun, doesn't compare (in my system, with my ears) to the T-amp.
I think the gist of it all is that these drivers are capable of hanging in some pretty expensive company.
Best,don
So let me start by saying that today has been a very rough day for me. Work was long and harsh so I sped home to listen to some tunes. I decided as soon as I walked in that I wanted to move my cd player closer to the amplifier. In the process I banged because I forgot to unplug the network cable from it. Now the cd drive itself is very loud while playing discs. Now, after cooling off from that mishap, I decided to load a good cd in to calm my nerves. I opened the tray and somehow the CD slipped off of my finger and feel edge first onto one of the Alpairs that were sitting there in their little cardboard boxes. This left about a 1" crease on the outer edge of the cone. Devastated. I'm completely distraught right now. I don't even know what to do. It seems like the dent has affected the sound a bit, it's not as bright as the other driver. *sigh* I just don't know where to go from here.
I feel for you man. I took mine over to my brothers house to listen on his system before finishing mine. He had really fat LOK plugs on his interconnects. When i plugged his preamp nito my amp, it squared wave them for about a second. I have small 1/8" creases in the face of the drivers in a couple of places. Not bad, but they extend a tiny bit into the cone. I have listened to them for many hours since, and have not heard any real differences. I am sure there are some, but i don't notice it enough to get new ones. Probably will ,just not right now. How about a pic of the damage. Dave may have an idea on some fixes, dont know though.
I'll try and post a pic tomorrow when my girlfriend brings over her camera. I doubt the camera on my phone can capture the horror that is the dent. Looks like I'll just have to make some grills for them as I'm nowhere near in the position to purchase another one. This hobby has left my bank account running on fumes. :/
I feel your pain. When i saw that bit in the notification email, i said "i hope he hasn't dented a cone".
We have killed 2 A7, at least one CHR, and an EL70 (as well as more than a few Fostex).
The one pictured was almost all done, and in its box for safekeeping. Pulling it out a slip and the "protective" piece of cardboard packaging fell edge on into the cone... we are only talking 3" or so. These cones are precision and pushed as far as they can go lightness-wize and still work.
You can try to careful massage out the crease with your fingertips (one on the backside, one on the front, but everytime i've tried this, i've made things worse (paper cones i have had some success, but needs to have treatment after))
Really all you can do is use it until you can get another. If you get a single, do make sure it is from the current batch. You could also consider the survivor to be the driver for a future centre channel.
dave
Attachments
How do I know if it's from the current batch? I think I've read somewhere that the cones are 6/1000ths (0.006) of an inch thick. Barely two pieces of paper thick. Maybe one day when I can replace these I'll order a pair from you, Dave. I think I've seen a gray cone with a neon green EnAbled coating to it. It looked amazing as neon green is my favorite color. I could see a pair of those in a nice piano black lacquered cabinet.
I'm currently giving them an intense listening to with my best material. Fading back and forth from right to left. There's a difference alright, not as drastic as I may have made it seem but definitely noticeable on certain recordings. Maybe next time I should make grills and apply them before I ever turn them on. Hahaha, maybe that'll save me from my clumbsy self.
I'm currently giving them an intense listening to with my best material. Fading back and forth from right to left. There's a difference alright, not as drastic as I may have made it seem but definitely noticeable on certain recordings. Maybe next time I should make grills and apply them before I ever turn them on. Hahaha, maybe that'll save me from my clumbsy self.
All of the 10.2 in existence (except for a few production prototypes) are from the same batch. Madisound will likely run-out and then we'll be into the 2nd batch.
The wild colours are only possible with cones that start out white. I've done green TB 1772, Fostex FE126 & FE127. Most of those were for Sally in NY.
One of my nicknames is dangerous dave from instances of clumbsy
dave
Also, be VERY careful when tightening the Allen screws to secure the driver.
In doing this, the Allen wrench slipped off the screw head, and landed on the come material
-- luckily, it left a tiny mark, no bigger than a pencil lead tip. Ones attention needs to be focused when working with these guys!!
don
In doing this, the Allen wrench slipped off the screw head, and landed on the come material
-- luckily, it left a tiny mark, no bigger than a pencil lead tip. Ones attention needs to be focused when working with these guys!!don
Wow, these guys are super delicate. Looks like nearly everyone has dinged them up somehow. I even saw a thread where a cat had taken it's nails to the cone. I'm glad I'm not alone. Maybe these need to just come with some acoustically transparent grill cloth pre-applied or something. Though I love the look of the copper "gold" cones. They're lovely and elegant.
Dave, was I looking at a Jordan or Markaudio driver when I saw the gray and green cone?
Dave, was I looking at a Jordan or Markaudio driver when I saw the gray and green cone?
I don't recall ever doing a come that was green with grey spots, or a grey one with green spots. Can you link the picture?
Most of the "varieties" have been posted here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/166518-its-not-easy-being-green-apologies-kermit.html
dave
Most of the "varieties" have been posted here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/166518-its-not-easy-being-green-apologies-kermit.html
dave
StevenZ,
Sorry to hear about you accident. At least they are playing decently - get a new one when the time is right. I have made it a habit of placing the "break in box" perched up around waist height - that way it's more difficult for me to inadvertently inflict damage.
Best of luck.
-Zia
Sorry to hear about you accident. At least they are playing decently - get a new one when the time is right. I have made it a habit of placing the "break in box" perched up around waist height - that way it's more difficult for me to inadvertently inflict damage.
Best of luck.
-Zia
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