Definitely does sound like very special plywood, and pricing is not all the fracking crazy considering the relatively small production runs you're probably talking about.
Mind naming the maker?
OTOH, the $90 sheet bamboo ply is exactly the opposite with us - the product is Smith & Fong Plyboo, 3ply laminated block core, FSC,. blah, blah, and even with trade discount starts at around $215 / sheet. Rather more of a pain to work with for something as elaborate as the Fonken style, but definitely makes a stunning looking and to my ears, better sounding enclosure than any of the BB or Euro/Appleply that I've tried.
The paper backer is probably a good idea for balancing, but frankly with as well braced an enclosure design as this, warping like you could experience with a 3/4" MDF /PB countertop wouldn't likely be an issue, and I seriously doubt would aid much in internal damping. For that you'd want to start with lining of walls with something like the 1/2" ultratouch insulation and fill cavities with fibrous wadding .
As to OB, I've heard several that I quite liked, but mostly in much larger spaces than I have available - like with full size ESL, Magnapans or any exotic planars, living with the damned things is not easy for everybody.
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Yeah, the paper backer was just applied for the heck of it, I didn't really think it would benefit it much but gave it a go on a whim. As for the bamboo, i'll upload a photo of the .25ft^3 sealed bamboo enclosures that I built for some small tang band full range speakers when I get my camera back. They look very nice and I believe they're 3 ply, block, FSC, blah blah just like the stuff you guys get. Doesn't the bamboo stink when you're cutting it?! I can't stand the smell personally. It's not uncommon for us to get a whole 18-wheeler full of material per week (sometimes more) of different plywoods so I'm sure that our pricing is "massaged" quite a bit due to our bulk ordering plus having a direct connection with a large importer.
Also, I can't name the maker of the plywood. None of the sides were stamped and it's been at least 5 years since we've ordered this stuff. If I remember correctly it was from somewhere on the west coast, possibly California.
On the OB subject, I'm actually simultaneously building some baffles for a pair of 15" Hawthorne Silver Iris' that I bought for my father. So I imagine I'll get to experience both worlds within a relatively small time frame very soon. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing how the sounds differ. Though I will say this. His listening room is about 25' x 25'. Mine is about 10' x 10'. It won't really be a fair comparison due to room size alone but I'm hoping that both speaker systems will excel at providing an accurate and life-like sound reproduction.
Honestly, I'll truly be devastated if the Alpair doesn't live up to my expectations. My budget is low and my demands are high. It could set me back months if I have to go back into the mix of researching, saving for, and building another set of speakers. I have high hopes though.
Also, I can't name the maker of the plywood. None of the sides were stamped and it's been at least 5 years since we've ordered this stuff. If I remember correctly it was from somewhere on the west coast, possibly California.
On the OB subject, I'm actually simultaneously building some baffles for a pair of 15" Hawthorne Silver Iris' that I bought for my father. So I imagine I'll get to experience both worlds within a relatively small time frame very soon. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing how the sounds differ. Though I will say this. His listening room is about 25' x 25'. Mine is about 10' x 10'. It won't really be a fair comparison due to room size alone but I'm hoping that both speaker systems will excel at providing an accurate and life-like sound reproduction.
Honestly, I'll truly be devastated if the Alpair doesn't live up to my expectations. My budget is low and my demands are high. It could set me back months if I have to go back into the mix of researching, saving for, and building another set of speakers. I have high hopes though.
Whoa, sorry guys. I was WAY under on the price I was stating our bamboo for. I just checked and we're getting it for $248 per sheet. I think the reason why I said $40 was because a co-worker of mine found a guy who had a giant surplus of 4x8's and was asking $40 cash per sheet. Sorry about that. Hahaha, whoops!
That pricing makes a lot more sense.
Be sure to carefully read Mark's instructions on gentle break-in (as opposed to "breaking" - vt) of Alpair drivers, and be prepared for several hundred hours of actual playing before they fully settle in and stop getting better.
I was fortunate to have a short comparative listening session yesterday afternoon between A7, A10 and JX92S - the latter drivers being somewhat disadvantaged by being in a woefully inadequate MDF box (Parts Expressed curved sides with poorly sealed front baffle) as well as not having the EnABL treatment. I really wanted to like the $180 ea Jordans, but for $20 per pair less, the treated Alpair 10s rather show them up.
of course standard disclosure implied by signature line
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me I could've bought my 10.2's EnABL'ed for $160 each? Had I known then I would have definitely gone that route. Does P10 break the drivers in at the same time while he applies the EnABL treatment? I wish I could send mind off to be treated. That would be nice.
I think my nervousness spawns from never actually hearing the Markaudio drivers before and buying mainly on the very small amount of reviews I could find. I was in the market for a pair of Fostex FE166's before these but they were out of stock, which is when I stumbled upon MarkAudio and pulled out the credit card and hoped for the best.
I'm the type of guy that will buy and sell repeatedly until I get my desired results. I'm hoping that these will remain in my collection for years to come and bring me many smiles while sharing the music I love with others.
I'm the type of guy that will buy and sell repeatedly until I get my desired results. I'm hoping that these will remain in my collection for years to come and bring me many smiles while sharing the music I love with others.
$340/pr. Matched pr. They get 200-400 hrs really gentle break-in, test, treatment, and are matched as to T/S. A match requires them to be within 1/4 dB efficiency and 3% on my other metrics.
The 1st batch of copper were finished about 10 days ago. Got my drivers in our Mar-Ken10.2 monday. Silver just waiting for the queue to clear (or get bumped up in the queue from an order).
It is doable to treat client drivers. They don't get matched, and you are on the hook for post both ways.
dave
Hi Steve,
There's a good number of folks on this forum, also in Europe and Japan with reviews and advice so I'm confident the new Alpair 10 Gen. 2's will please you, quite possibly surprise you by what they can achieve in a good box.
Re Enabling, Dave's (Planet 10) has gained allot of skill over the years at applying fine coatings and finishes to cones. Some of his finishes look stunningly good. I'm possibly the only driver maker who encourages Dave to progress his efforts. But, please don't assume that Enabling or any other similar process is "automatically" an improvement. Treatments of this type damp/reduce the micro-reonsance emittance characteristics of drivers. Its about personal taste and listening preferences. Opinion on such processes appears to split into 2 camps; Broadly, those who prefer detail and clarity keep the drivers standard, while those who like to smooth the sound slightly would look to Enabling or similar to help achieve this desire.
I'm an "experimenter" at heart, Dave likewise. We usually manage a SKYPE conversation once a month. We'd both hope to grow the businesses to the point where we might invest in a new cone type that includes Enabling in the Multi-Form process used to make this component. Had it not have been for the Subprime crash and latterly, the disaster in Japan affecting business, we might have been able to make a start this year. We'll have to see what happens in the coming months.
My advise is to play with your drivers, run them in carefully. See how you like them and talk to Dave if you'd like to experiment further.
Cheers
Mark
There's a good number of folks on this forum, also in Europe and Japan with reviews and advice so I'm confident the new Alpair 10 Gen. 2's will please you, quite possibly surprise you by what they can achieve in a good box.
Re Enabling, Dave's (Planet 10) has gained allot of skill over the years at applying fine coatings and finishes to cones. Some of his finishes look stunningly good. I'm possibly the only driver maker who encourages Dave to progress his efforts. But, please don't assume that Enabling or any other similar process is "automatically" an improvement. Treatments of this type damp/reduce the micro-reonsance emittance characteristics of drivers. Its about personal taste and listening preferences. Opinion on such processes appears to split into 2 camps; Broadly, those who prefer detail and clarity keep the drivers standard, while those who like to smooth the sound slightly would look to Enabling or similar to help achieve this desire.
I'm an "experimenter" at heart, Dave likewise. We usually manage a SKYPE conversation once a month. We'd both hope to grow the businesses to the point where we might invest in a new cone type that includes Enabling in the Multi-Form process used to make this component. Had it not have been for the Subprime crash and latterly, the disaster in Japan affecting business, we might have been able to make a start this year. We'll have to see what happens in the coming months.
My advise is to play with your drivers, run them in carefully. See how you like them and talk to Dave if you'd like to experiment further.
Cheers
Mark
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Perfect, I'll give them a go in stock form then. If I feel they need to be smoothed out then I'll have Dave work his magic. I like the sharp detailed stuff and tend to lean towards metal coned drivers as opposed to paper. Could be the woodworkers hearing loss, but who knows. Thanks for the input guys it's greatly appreciated.
As for the stark comparison between the Hawthorne's. I think it will be interesting. I've heard the SI's before and I was impressed. They're very open, natural, and detailed. Not to mention their high sensitivity and baffle friendliness. These attributes make it easy for a newcomer to DIY or even Hi-Fi jump right in and have fun. Another plus to the SI's is their 3 year warranty and their pro audio heritage. They'll down right jam if you need them to, all the while keeping their composure. All in all, two different beasts, each of them excelling price point and manufacturer support.
Cheers
As for the stark comparison between the Hawthorne's. I think it will be interesting. I've heard the SI's before and I was impressed. They're very open, natural, and detailed. Not to mention their high sensitivity and baffle friendliness. These attributes make it easy for a newcomer to DIY or even Hi-Fi jump right in and have fun. Another plus to the SI's is their 3 year warranty and their pro audio heritage. They'll down right jam if you need them to, all the while keeping their composure. All in all, two different beasts, each of them excelling price point and manufacturer support.
Cheers
Hi Steve,
Its the best to step by step. You need to check out your boxes, the amp and source (CD player, computer etc.) listening room positioning etc., how all these elements work together. Then gradually decide how you wish to refine the whole system. I'm sure the regulars on this and the full range section of the forum are willing to help.
Thx
Mark.
I've heard them a number of times, and lived with them for a while. One of my main complaints was they sounded quite boxy. Hard to do on an OB.
dave
I've heard pretty much the same SI systems as Dave, although for not the same total length of exposure - I'd describe them not so much as "boxy", but certainly very problematic (congested and lacking in transparency / spacious staging) in the several octaves through and either side of XO.
FWIW, these were almost exactly the same impressions I had of a friends Hammer Dynamics Super12 - while a totally different configuration of enclosure & tweeter, still a case of large Eminence based woofer and the rather regrettable XO point required due to its size. Dynamic? hell yes - seamless transfer / smooth midrange response with coherent imaging and sound stage? not so much.
This is of course the exact area where a well executed single driver system, played within its limitations (not as universally substantial as some folks would have it) excel.
In the case of the Hammers, the replacement speakers were Cain & Cain Abbys, a order of magnitude improvement in all respects.
Just out of curiosity, did you guys audition them with the old or new XO's? Apparently there has been an overhaul of the XO to address the problem that most people complained about.
We all have different ears as well as expectation of what a speaker should do. You guys may hate something that I absolutely love and vise versa. I've head them, I liked them, so I bought them. I also doubt I'm as deep into this as you guys are so I may not have as well of a trained ear in nitpicking certain aspects of the sound as much. I like to enjoy the music, and if a speaker system can get my foot tapping, my heart pumping, and lift my spirit I'd say it's a success.
We all have different ears as well as expectation of what a speaker should do. You guys may hate something that I absolutely love and vise versa. I've head them, I liked them, so I bought them. I also doubt I'm as deep into this as you guys are so I may not have as well of a trained ear in nitpicking certain aspects of the sound as much. I like to enjoy the music, and if a speaker system can get my foot tapping, my heart pumping, and lift my spirit I'd say it's a success.
I was aware of at least two XO designs - we heard them on several occasions, and at least one of which was with the circuit as revised by Hurdy Gurdy Man. I don't think all of the issues is with the XO. What I forgot to mention earlier what that a smaller similarly format driver systems by the late Adire ( i.e Eminence woofer with concentric horn loaded compression tweeter) sounded quite more musically coherent than either the Hammers, or SI that I'd heard. IIRC there were 10" and 12" versions, smallish BR boxes. Coming from the design lab of Dan Wiggins, I'd imagine the XO would be more elaborate than a simple 1st order, so it certainly can be done without getting too much in the way.
And for one, I take no offense at the use of "nitpicking" - the ability to tailor a system to my needs (or recalibrate my expectations when that doesn't work) is one of the reasons I DIY. - and I'm certainly a champion, if not soap-box orator in favor of the cause of subjectivity in this area. So, you're absolutely right that regardless of the program material or your own artistry of movement, if you're enjoying it enough to move major or minor muscle groups, it's a success.
What does pi$$ me off is when someone tells me that "that design philosophy is wrong", or "what you think you're enjoying can't really work or wouldn't measure worth a crap" - but life's too short to argue everything to death.
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