Sheesh Mark i just took a pause from listening to Frightened Rabbit "The Midnight Organ Fight", checked the forum to read new post and had to think about that one but yep i've the nonesuch recording. It's one of my favorite's, i really enjoyed hearing Gorecki's #3 live in concert. Still waiting for a chance to go to a performance of his contemporary Krzysztof Penderecki's Threnody to the Victums of Hiroshima and Canticum Canticorum Salomonis.
So anyway now i'm wondering about something, John Morris obviously likes his A12's, has he heard the A10.2?
So anyway now i'm wondering about something, John Morris obviously likes his A12's, has he heard the A10.2?
Hello!
I have now played about 80 h with pretty low/ moderate volumes, and I have noticed lots of progression happening. Sound is maybe more "open" and tones are more realistic. Wonderful sounding loudspeakers with right kind of good material, for example Diana Krall's "From this moment on" CD is sounding very impressive. But unfortunately, these loudspeakers are not for the todays rock/pop music.
I have a question related to damping/stuffing of the box. Do you guys have any tips how to get most impressive bass out of the box? I would myself prefer a little bit warmer/darker sound. Maybe a little bit extra boost to upper bass region. Is it possible by changing the amount of stuffing or stuffing material? How about the location of the stuffing, does it make any difference?
I have now played about 80 h with pretty low/ moderate volumes, and I have noticed lots of progression happening. Sound is maybe more "open" and tones are more realistic. Wonderful sounding loudspeakers with right kind of good material, for example Diana Krall's "From this moment on" CD is sounding very impressive. But unfortunately, these loudspeakers are not for the todays rock/pop music.
I have a question related to damping/stuffing of the box. Do you guys have any tips how to get most impressive bass out of the box? I would myself prefer a little bit warmer/darker sound. Maybe a little bit extra boost to upper bass region. Is it possible by changing the amount of stuffing or stuffing material? How about the location of the stuffing, does it make any difference?
To me playing with stuffing in an 8" sealed 2 way (6db tweeter) has only affected the voice (too much = bad and muffled), that begs the question, do we want some rear wave mixing through the cone ?
Anyway, I'd play with box distance to wall and also vary where you sit and how far away you sit.
Norman
Anyway, I'd play with box distance to wall and also vary where you sit and how far away you sit.
Norman
K R, fwiw i can only offer a guess at this point, that adjusting the stuffing won't do as much for you as a different box plan. I thinking Scott L.'s avebury* would be interesting if you have the space for it and the solstice** could have a different balance, or even the supper pencil 12 which goes lower so should help with the overall BW?
What troubles me about your experience is why the A12 wouldn't be good for today's rock/pop music even though more and more recordings are engineered with trumped up bass to thump the car doors and appeal to the masses. I'm very interested to read what Dave, Chris, Scott and Mark and others think about it.
*,**Woden Design | Mark Audio
What troubles me about your experience is why the A12 wouldn't be good for today's rock/pop music even though more and more recordings are engineered with trumped up bass to thump the car doors and appeal to the masses. I'm very interested to read what Dave, Chris, Scott and Mark and others think about it.
*,**Woden Design | Mark Audio
Hi!
As Mark wroted earlier, alpairs are quite demanding loudspeaker elements, and they will bring everything into your face. So, if there are any mistakes in the source material you will hear it. I have quite a lot hard rock/heavy music, bands like iron maiden, etc. and many of those discs are sounding pretty ugly. Maybe there are better cd + amp. combinations for alpairs than Arcam + Vincent. But my combination can't be bad either, because most of the vocal jazz cd's are sounding absolutely amazing.
Yes, they do. I would say that 8" TB +Eminence 15A is a very universal loudspeaker. They will fit easily to any genre. They are not so detailed as Alpairs and they are more full bodied. Maybe thats why they fit better to rock music. Alpairs do much better in the midrange area. I hear more details, also the bass is more detailed.
For this kind of source i am apt to recommend a speaker with (at least) 2 EL70 per side.
dave
Top tip with Iron Maiden is to search through 2nd hand shops etc. & buy the non remastered CD albums from the early 1990s. The remasters have been so heavily compressed that they're ruined. The musicianship in 'Maiden is actually of a very high order indeed, but the almost complete destruction of the dynamic range in the remasters masks most of that, and causes a lot of the detail to vanish into a wall of noise.
Since the Woden Megalith cabinets have been mentioned, this seems like an opportune time to mention a few developments that are occuring at the moment.
Maeshowe has turned out better than even I anticipated; so much so that I have made the decision to transition the entire Megalith range (Dunideer excepted) over to this type of load. The Alpair 7 works well in Maeshowe, as any eagle-eyed types looking at pictures of last summer's VI diyfest may have spotted; Silbury and Avebury for the Alpair 10.2 and Alpair 12 have dedicated, larger variations of this general load type.
Maeshowe has turned out better than even I anticipated; so much so that I have made the decision to transition the entire Megalith range (Dunideer excepted) over to this type of load. The Alpair 7 works well in Maeshowe, as any eagle-eyed types looking at pictures of last summer's VI diyfest may have spotted; Silbury and Avebury for the Alpair 10.2 and Alpair 12 have dedicated, larger variations of this general load type.
What do you mean for this? That the speakers can't handle well the sound, or that show quickly any defect in the source? I listen a lot of today music too, so i want to know if these speakers are aproppiate for this.
Hello!
I wouldn't recommend Pensil 12 for the heavily compressed music (hard rock/heavy metal, etc). There are better loudspeakers for that purpose. Pensils are wonderful loudspeakers with good source material, right kind of equipments, and are best suited for jazz, blues, classical, vocals, small ensembles... That's my opinion after 120 hours of listening.
and how loud they can play? mi concern is, in general, you can raise the volume with "normal" drivers and if it starts to sound distorted, you know they aren't handle the volume and you can lower the volume to safe levels(without major harm to the drivers). but i'm afraid that with the alps in general, when you raise the volume and it starts to sound distorted, it's because you already break the driver, and you'll have to buy another one
.
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and how loud they can play? mi concern is, in general, you can raise the volume with "normal" drivers and if it starts to sound distorted, you know they aren't handle the volume and you can lower the volume to safe levels(without major harm to the drivers). but i'm afraid that with the alps in general, when you raise the volume and it starts to sound distorted, it's because you already break the driver, and you'll have to buy another one
I haven't tested their ability to play loud. I think it's not a problem. They will play loud enough at least for my purposes.
I'm only a little bit concerned about the tonal balance of the sound. When I'm playing my best records (highest quality), the balance is ok. Then there is adequate bass and everything is sounding amazing. When I'm playing something with a little bit "dry" bass, I would like to get more bass boost(more warmer sound). Next I will try some tube rolling in order to get more warmer sound. Arcam is maybe a slightly thin sounding cd-player, but I like it because it's very detailed and clean sounding.
Scott,
Looks you have solved the mystery of the thin sounding Iron Maiden album for me - I popped in my Powerslave CD (1998 Remaster) the other day and oh my goodness... kind of dry even on my 3 way speakers... same for Somewhere in Time... I had a cassette recording of the albums previosuly... don't remember the mix being like this. Now I see all my Maiden CDs are remasters ... not good for me. What have I been buying?
-Zia
Looks you have solved the mystery of the thin sounding Iron Maiden album for me - I popped in my Powerslave CD (1998 Remaster) the other day and oh my goodness... kind of dry
even on my 3 way speakers... same for Somewhere in Time... I had a cassette recording of the albums previosuly... don't remember the mix being like this. Now I see all my Maiden CDs are remasters ... not good for me. What have I been buying?-Zia
I'm still thinking alpair 12's will work for movies once you are beyond needing bass that hits you in the chest.
I rewatched "the cube" 1 and 2 over the last 2 nights, and noticed I had a hard time understanding dialog (running off of the left channel out of the dvd player with my dual 15" and horn 2-way crossed at 750hz)). When I ran my dual 4" wide open, dialog was excellent and I got more from the movies because you could pick up on actors going "huh" and "mmm" in reaction to what is happening on screen The full rangers didn't make you concentrate to hear everything that is going on in the dialog department.
If you listen loud (like you have to raise your voice to talk to someone), have a big room, dance club music, or holst the planets, then you will need bass assistance, especially if you sit more than 5' from the speakers.
Norman
I rewatched "the cube" 1 and 2 over the last 2 nights, and noticed I had a hard time understanding dialog (running off of the left channel out of the dvd player with my dual 15" and horn 2-way crossed at 750hz)). When I ran my dual 4" wide open, dialog was excellent and I got more from the movies because you could pick up on actors going "huh" and "mmm" in reaction to what is happening on screen The full rangers didn't make you concentrate to hear everything that is going on in the dialog department.
If you listen loud (like you have to raise your voice to talk to someone), have a big room, dance club music, or holst the planets, then you will need bass assistance, especially if you sit more than 5' from the speakers.
Norman
Scott,
Looks you have solved the mystery of the thin sounding Iron Maiden album for me - I popped in my Powerslave CD (1998 Remaster) the other day and oh my goodness... kind of dry
-Zia
Hi Zia, Guys,
I've long wrestled with errant CD's. Drives me nuts when CD's are so called "re-mastered" only to find they're over-compressed. From my memory Bob Brines has also lamented this trend, along with a growing number of DIyers.
My time in Japan last year was very interesting. There's a big studio recording scene in Tokyo. Many audio guys here in HK search out (even fly out) to get hold of Tokyo produced recordings. I've been using "Air Jazz - Tokyo 2006 (Label: Zain Japan, ASIN: B000NVTHJG) for part of my Gen. 2 listening tests. It's got allot of "live" concert material on it, all well-balanced.
I've held onto my old Sony CDP-33EX CD player. Its warm and helps to tame errant CD's. At home I'm using an old Accuphase DP65 (1993), also does this job superbly. Of interest, the DP65 uses Sony's uber-fab R1 transport. The Sony CD player model range can be confusing but usually the 3's, 5's and 7 EX's are worth looking if they are the "all Japan" models using their "G" chassis. These units were superbly built in the early-mid 1990's. Any of these CD players should help "smooth" out re-masters.
In essence guys, search out the decent recordings (old and new). Don't assume that all re-mastered CD's are going to be wonderful. The best of the bunch should be JVC's XRCD. Expensive buy usually excellent.
Cheers
Mark.
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