Enough is enough!! RIBBON VS ESL VS MANGER VS REST - > WHICH IS THE BEST! - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd October 2006, 03:41 AM   #1
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MTL
Default Enough is enough!! RIBBON VS ESL VS MANGER VS REST - > WICH IS THE BEST!

i can't stop reading about everybody saying that
THIS method or THIS construction
( should i use contraption )

is better than this other ...

everybody talks about what they hear,
what they feel ..
and this is usually totally biased, subjectif or both at the same time ..


I WANT FACTS!!!!

Do we have hard facts like measurements of all those kind of drivers to actually determine WICH makes the best reproduction of the source ???

Was there ever a REAL scientific comparison of the best of each category ?
(or the best affordable of each ... )

We could also determine a list of the specific requried measurements to be able to compare each ...

i'll start with the easiest
(as my humble level of knowledge is really low.. )

- Distortion ( vs source signal ? )


Can we at least determine a winning technology ?
i guess that measurements are the only way to seriously compare all the different technologies ..

i am probably missing something here!
let's hope that you guys get the point of my quest..



I hope that this
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 03:56 AM   #2
johndiy is offline johndiy  Greece
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
""i guess that measurements are the only way to seriously compare all the different technologies ..""

absolutely, enough is enough,lets see some graphs

john
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 08:34 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Default depends...

this is one of those "swings and round abouts" kind of questions. It all depends on what you want to do and how you want it done. Simple!? Yes you can take most any of the technologies you mentioned and make it do a great job at what you want it to as long as you are prepared to spend the time and money. They all have pro's and con's. Go listen to the ones that interest you and even the ones that don't (you may be surprised) by what you hear. Then decide what the heck it is you want and go after it and see if you (or anyone else has done it or come close). Decide what you are prepared to invest and have at it.
What's the best? Who knows, who is the best artist? Who makes the best wine or camera? It all boils down to what spins your crank. If you really want a simple answer look at the market place. Lots of people (some of them really smart) all trying to make a living building speakers. Of all the technology out there they have to decide what will get them the closest to "the best' for the least. So you tell me what are more designers playing with? Cones and domes and you can complain all you like but some of the very best speakers out there today are just that so go figure. Regards Moray James.
__________________
moray james
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 12:46 PM   #4
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MTL
hey!
i'd have expected just that kind of post from my friend Moray

i know what you explained..
i want to be able to compare some datas for the different driverrs in existence ..
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 01:37 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Default well there you go...

what data and for what parameters? This thing is such an apples and oranges deal. Choose the things that mater most to you and then have a look see. I will say though that if low distortion is at the top of your list that you need look no further than the highest efficiency drivers that you can find. Klipsch said it some time ago "the higher the efficiency the lower the distortion". So Pro you go a searching. Have fun looking. Regards Moray James.
__________________
moray james
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 02:13 PM   #6
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MTL
ok Moray,thanks for the advice,
i didn't know that higher efficiency equaled to lower distortion
( is there a mechanical reason for that?, or is it only because we will be drivnig them with less power for the same output ? )

I wasn't planning this thread for my personal taste,
but more for a general audience.

I am sure that alot of us with less knowledge than a few gurus ( such as u ) are interested in a direct scientifical analysis of difference between each tech...

i know that hearing is really subjective
but we all use frequency response everyday for comparaison/analysis and it is not a factor of natural discernment ( i hope this sentence makes any sense in english ahha )
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 05:18 PM   #7
badman is offline badman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
badman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunny Tustin, SoCal
Default Re: well there you go...

Quote:
Originally posted by moray james
what data and for what parameters? This thing is such an apples and oranges deal. Choose the things that mater most to you and then have a look see. I will say though that if low distortion is at the top of your list that you need look no further than the highest efficiency drivers that you can find. Klipsch said it some time ago "the higher the efficiency the lower the distortion". So Pro you go a searching. Have fun looking. Regards Moray James.

Klipsch was wrong While generally a worthwhile rule of thumb (high efficiency does mean less power required, and often horns or larger radiators than lower efficiency, both of which lead to reduced distortion) there are other factors at play. The Seas Excel are very good in terms of distortion, but don't have "high efficiency" by my standards (93dB would be the absolute bottom cutoff for modestly high efficiency, IMO).

But I'm all for using large pro stuff
__________________
I write for www.enjoythemusic.com in the DIY section. You may find yourself getting a preview of a project in-progress. Be warned!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 06:00 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Default I may stand corrected but I'am not sure

I thought klipsch had been proved correct? In any event the less that a driver has to move to make a given level the more linear it will be and so the less distortion. Top quality pro drivers have outstanding specs that most hi end audio speakers only dream of. Pounding woofers with miles of travel usually just mean a lot more distortion. Watch a 15 inch bass driver in a Karlson cabinet some time playing so youd you can barely hear the person next to you scream and look at the driver movement, maybe 1/4 inch on just the peaks for the most part it hardly looks like it is moving at all. Something to be said for a good air impedance match. Electrostats can do the same kind of thing with incredible jump factor when everything is set right and you dont ask them to make a lot of bass. I think you have to build a system where you pick the right driver/technology to to the job. Have a good look at pro systems, 4-5 way's are the norm (for good reasons) did you ever consider what would happen to most audiophile speakers if you plugged a Fender Precission into them and played? Remember that an electric bass only drops down to about 41 Hz. So how can we consider a system as audiophile grade when it cannot even reproduce an electric bass guitar (never mind a drum kit)? Most audiophiles scoff at such a suggestion and say that that is not necessary in a livingroom but that is just a bunch of you know what. Even playing a bass at livingroom levels on a home hi fi is likely to fry the speakers (have seen that more than once). So you have to accept the fact that a 10 inch woofer and a 1 inch tweeter are not going to take you to the land of true fidelity any time soon. You will need a lot more gear and your system will end up looking in many ways a lot more like a pro rig because frankly that's what it takes to get the job done. Regards Moray James.
__________________
moray james
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2006, 09:27 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern Germany
Hi,

what good for is"objective" data of measurements, if not executed in your specific listening room ??

You could find the best speaker measured ever and might be disappointed having it in your room.

What i want to say is, that beside low distortions...... radiation of sound is more important. especially point sources, which are considered to be perfect can sound lousy in rooms,because they might cause horrible issues with wall reflections. On the other hand a line source show funny measurements under perfect room conditions, but often sound best in averaged living rooms.

So if you want the best speaker,first ask yourself some questions:

1. where do i sit and where are the speakers to be positioned
2. do i want to add some damping elements into my room
3. at which soundlevel do i hear
4. what is the listening distance
.......

And even you might find two speakers with identical perfect measurements, they will sound different !!

Regards, Capaciti
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2006, 02:33 AM   #10
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MTL
i know that..we are discussing all that
allllll day long

BUT WHAT ABOUT REAL DATAS!!

i only want to compare the different technologies in different key attributes of a driver set

No need for room stuff

we are looking here at only measurements in anechoic
or whatever other type of room that driver makers use to test them when they are prototyping/testing

forget about room interaction
that doesn't have anything to do with the driver itself

can anyone gather/show comparable measurements of different technologies?


Let's start with MANGER
is there any data other than the manufacturer's for this driver ??
how does it compare to other technologies?
VS ESL ? VS RIBBONS ..
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amps for the rest of us? dzzmiller Full Range 44 6th April 2009 04:18 PM
can trafo laminations rest on chassis? CarlyBoy Tubes / Valves 8 27th December 2008 12:07 AM
for sale: the rest of my stuff. vincentrubble Swap Meet 10 15th February 2008 04:45 PM
May he rest in peace! Audiofanatic Everything Else 3 5th July 2003 10:55 PM
Goeie dag, G'day, and Hi to the rest. JDeV Introductions 16 8th November 2002 12:33 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2