Enough is enough!! RIBBON VS ESL VS MANGER VS REST - > WHICH IS THE BEST! - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 4th October 2006, 02:40 AM   #11
Dave is offline Dave  New Zealand
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I think even looking at it from a measurements only point you'll still find they all have strengths and weaknesses with no clear winner.
Not to mention the huge variations in radiation patterns from ESL to ribbon to cones/domes.
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Old 4th October 2006, 03:10 AM   #12
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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then what do we have to compare?

Is there any way to compare drivers at all ?

It doesn't look like, if i listen to what you are all sayin ..

So we are reproducing a source, with a certain fidelity,
but we can't measure that, and we can't compare
much because it is all sooooo different ..

Even though a FWD 4 banger car is quite different than a RWD V8 rod, you can still compare them on acceleration or handling ...
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Old 4th October 2006, 04:46 PM   #13
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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A bit of an issue is that a loudspeaker doesn't really HAVE a frequency response -- it has zillions of them!

A car's acceleration can be measured so you can get a meaningful number. An amplifier has one input and one output between which response can be measured absolutely. But a loudspeaker has an infinite number of outputs, all depending where in space you measure from (variations in left, right, up, down, and how far away). There is no single "output port".

So, suppose you decide to measure from some fixed distance (say 1 meter) in some fixed direction (say "on-axis"), then can you decide whether a speaker is better in terms of frequency response? Maybe, but only for that listening position... and only for listeners in an anechoic chamber! Because, like it or not, the speaker radiates in all directions, and with different responses in each direction, and that radiation bounces around the room and will come back to the listener, and that reflected sound will most definitely have a huge effect on the sound. So the speaker's actually-used response will also differ depending on what room it is in, and where it is in that room, and where the listener is seated. A "perfect speaker" would have to somehow remove the reflections that the room adds.

Add into the mix distortion (which varies with both frequency and with drive level, and sometimes with how long the driver has been playing and how loudly), efficiency, load impedance presented to the amplifier, and max SPL capability. What do you want to proclaim the "most important" characteristic? That would probably depend on what is most critical to your ears and to the rest of your setup. Measurements can tell you a lot, but you'll probably still have to listen to a speaker to make the final call on it.
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Old 4th October 2006, 04:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Enough is enough!! RIBBON VS ESL VS MANGER VS REST - > WICH IS THE BEST!

Originally posted by JinMTVT
i can't stop reading about everybody saying that
THIS method or THIS construction
( should i use contraption )

is better than this other ...

everybody talks about what they hear,
what they feel ..
and this is usually totally biased, subjectif or both at the same time ..


Do we have hard facts like measurements of all those kind of drivers to actually determine WICH makes the best reproduction of the source ???

Was there ever a REAL scientific comparison of the best of each category ?
(or the best affordable of each ... )

We could also determine a list of the specific requried measurements to be able to compare each ...

i'll start with the easiest
(as my humble level of knowledge is really low.. )

- Distortion ( vs source signal ? )

Can we at least determine a winning technology ?
i guess that measurements are the only way to seriously compare all the different technologies ..

i am probably missing something here!
let's hope that you guys get the point of my quest..

I hope that this
Buy/audition the drivers/speakers and listen for yourself. Pick the one you like and claim your prize. This is what I do, I buy samples and
do auditions with human ears, a new concept for many .. lol

Take the easy path, you will be happier.

One loudspeaker design doesn't solve all the needs, you
have to design a loudspeaker optimized to meet specific goals.

Define your goals and then make a list of driver candidates
and do auditions. Pick the lesser of the evils, there is no
perfect driver or loudspeaker.
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Old 4th October 2006, 07:29 PM   #15
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Default thank you thylantyr...

That about sums things up just buy the one that you like the best. Funny that's how we buy everything else and the only time that it dosen't work is when we don't trust out own judgment. Regards Moray James.
moray james
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Old 4th October 2006, 07:38 PM   #16
JinMTVT is offline JinMTVT  Canada
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GRRRRRRRRRRRR guy c'mon ...

u inderstand and acknkoledge everything you are saying .... this is how it works NORMALLY


i just wanna LEARN a bit more ..



stop going back to the " buy what u like "
that's not the point of my thread ...

i want to learn the different properties of each technology ...
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Old 4th October 2006, 07:51 PM   #17
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The RAAL ribbon website technology section describes EQUAFIELD as a breakthrough in homogenous magnetic field across the gap. Is this just hype-speak, or some good engineering improvements on the tradition pole piece design? Any ideas on how to model EQUAFIELD?

"EQUAFIELD® technology: The magnetic field in RAAL ribbons is homogenous. Regarding the width of the gap, it is designed to have the same strength at the ribbon edges, as well as at the ribbon middle portion. It reduces the stress at the ribbon foil dramatically. The distortion, too. To get the precisely shaped field, through the gap width and depth, we’ve extensively used the FEM and BEM magnetic circuits analysis software. In order to obtain such a field in real magnetic circuit, very strong NdFeB magnets have been precisely machined, prior to magnetisation, in very special shape. Making the magnetic field homogenous, sacrifices the strength of it, but efficiency should easily be changed for low stress and low linear and nonlinear distortion."
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Old 4th October 2006, 07:53 PM   #18
Dave is offline Dave  New Zealand
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A bit of reading for you.

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Old 4th October 2006, 08:32 PM   #19
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1977 patent on forming magnet poles for a more homogenous ribbon magnetic field. Is this was RAAL means by EQUAFIELD?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1977.jpg (22.5 KB, 540 views)
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Old 4th October 2006, 09:40 PM   #20
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All drivers are flawed, but in different ways. You ask for data, but there are so many ways of measuring that you can only take that as a guide, unless you did the comparative tests yourself in strictly controlled conditions and then know enough to interpret the data in a meaningful way.

With the current state of the art, using any technology, there will never be a ultimate "best driver", but half the fun in this hobby is trying to find the best for you.
Rick: Oh Cliff / Sometimes it must be difficult not to feel as if / You really are a cliff / when fascists keep trying to push you over it! / Are they the lemmings / Or are you, Cliff? / Or are you Cliff?
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