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Old 3rd July 2006, 12:05 AM   #1
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Default acoustat question....

I bought 2+2 and wanted to know if I could put the panels horizontally instead of vertically.because my ceiling isnt high enough so I was thinking of stack 2x 2+2 8 panels per side horizontal .could that be good for image depth etc...or I would just loose everything....
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Old 3rd July 2006, 02:04 AM   #2
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Yes.

That is called an Acoustat IV!

The bass is usually better that way...

A more rigid and stable frame is also a benefit, fwiw.

Change out the coupling caps, asap - use film caps, preferably polypropylenes. This will dramatically improve the imaging, moving the upper mids back into the same plane with the rest of the sound.

I also eliminated the fuse for the speaker line.

Other than that, enjoy.

_-_-bear

Oh... wait a second... turn them on their sides???

That's a different deal... you can, but the imaging will be a bit "funny".
Better to devise a new frame.

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Old 3rd July 2006, 07:48 AM   #3
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You could put all 4 pannels side by side, that would be a pair of Acoustat 4's, see pic.
Attached Images
File Type: gif acoustat 4..gif (31.2 KB, 603 views)
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Old 3rd July 2006, 10:37 AM   #4
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yeah that's what I first thought but had an idea of placing them the other way around to have more panels could it be good for the sound other than having more sound?
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Old 9th July 2006, 08:27 AM   #5
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If you place the pannels horizontaly and stack them 4 high you will have shocking horizontal dispersion, your hot seat will be 1 inch wide to be a scare monger.
Acoustat knew what they were doing, when they place 4 pannels side by side, stick to what they know.
Cheers George
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Old 9th July 2006, 04:41 PM   #6
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Default If you feel like experimenting...

try building a set of vertical frames for just one panel. Situate the single panel about two and a quarter feet up off of the floor. The panels in a 2+2 are 9 inches wide. In this configuration you will get the best stage and image possible. You will need to make some connection changes inside the interface to optimise the interface for a single panel but these are just quick connects so it is fast and easy. You will need to run subs with this set up. However if it is stage and image that you are after then this is the way to go. Acoustat progressed from the side by side configeration to the vertical plus arrangement for this very reason. A pair of stereo subs should bring back all the impact that you will loose by giving up the extra panels. You may as well give this a try as you have nothing to loose and I can't see you switching back after you hear them this way. Just my 2 cents YMMV. Best regards Moray James. PS: if you wanted to run eight panels per side you would also need an extra set of interfaces to do it. Check out the model eight. Have a look at the ESL Circuit where there is tons of info on the Acoustat.
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Old 10th July 2006, 01:01 AM   #7
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thx guys
I will try first all 4 side by side
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Old 10th July 2006, 03:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: If you feel like experimenting...

Quote:
Originally posted by moray james
try building a set of vertical frames for just one panel. Situate the single panel about two and a quarter feet up off of the floor. The panels in a 2+2 are 9 inches wide. In this configuration you will get the best stage and image possible. You will need to make some connection changes inside the interface to optimise the interface for a single panel but these are just quick connects so it is fast and easy. You will need to run subs with this set up. However if it is stage and image that you are after then this is the way to go. Acoustat progressed from the side by side configeration to the vertical plus arrangement for this very reason. A pair of stereo subs should bring back all the impact that you will loose by giving up the extra panels. You may as well give this a try as you have nothing to loose and I can't see you switching back after you hear them this way. Just my 2 cents YMMV. Best regards Moray James. PS: if you wanted to run eight panels per side you would also need an extra set of interfaces to do it. Check out the model eight. Have a look at the ESL Circuit where there is tons of info on the Acoustat.

Moray,

While in some respects a single panel will give a superior "image" , my experience (which includes 1+1s, and listing to single panels for testing) says that this is not the best way to go unless you like a "headclamp" listening position... the Acoustat panels are fairly beamy, actually quite beamy at HF, the purpose of the gentle curve to the multicell models (as you doubtless know) was to improve the overall horizontal dispersion.

One listen outside without any walls to reflect the sound would probably surprise most planar dipole owner! No reflections = very beamy sound!

The other problem with putting the single cell up about 2 feet or so is the issue of floor bounce - it will put a nice notch in the upper bass. Perhaps above the freq of a sub.

But, I prefer the "direct" bass sound of the Acoustat over the typical sub by a wide margin!

Proper set up in the room, and of the listening position will yield quite excellent "imaging" in general for the horizontal multicell Acoustats.

Fwiw, I prefer them toed in not flat out to the listening position, and the image perspective varies as you move +/- the "equilateral" point (speakers distance vs. listening distance), work with it.

I'd opt for running a III with the center cell full range and the outer two cells rolled off over a single cell, myself...

My personal experience with the entire line, save the model 8s, is that the 3 has better imaging than the 4, the 4 has the best bass of the 4 and down, the 2 isn't very good on the bottom, the 1+1 lacks bass and is a bit thinner in the midbass. The 6 is BIG. I prefer 3s overall as the best compromise - but I have kick *** subs if I need super low bass. 4s are quite impressive and kinda good if ur room is larger or you like louder for whaterver reason.

No matter what you absolutely need a 200wRMS class or larger amp unless ur room is rather small.

Change the coupling caps out for all polypropylene first chance you get.

Ymmv.

_-_-bear
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Old 10th July 2006, 11:05 PM   #9
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great!! the coupling caps are easy to find ?
I havent looked in the black boxes so far
I noticed they are medaillion with a red sticker
and that I have 5 wires running the panels instead of 3 like my freind has on his 2+2 ,do you know what difference it makes?
when you say horizontal you mean laying down or standing up fro the panels?
(Proper set up in the room, and of the listening position will yield quite excellent "imaging" in general for the horizontal multicell Acoustats. )

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Old 11th July 2006, 06:45 AM   #10
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Default differences

your medallions have wires (stators) attached to both endes of the panels this does help a little in terms of driving the panels but it is not a big difference compared to the previous panel with stator connections just at one end only.
Bear: has been my experience that when you run Acoustats on realy good electronics (read stable into the load) the head in a vice effect is all but gone. Placing a single panel up off the floor is not an issue as the panels have very little dispersion in the direction of the length of the panel. I have found that lifting panels up off the floor and down from the ceiling by a foot or more actually helps to smooth out the line source output as there is gain from the floor and ceiling bounce and a little distance helps. Subs can be made to intigrate well but I won't argue with you over what these panels can do for bass but as you said you need big amps and space. I think that we can agree to disagree on those preferences. For those with limited space single panels with subs are great especially if you can place the outside edge of the panels right up against the side wall (in the acoustical null of the speaker) which really helps midbass output as well as floor space, not something you can do with a box speaker. Or if you have two front wall corners place the single panel as close into the corners (at 45 degrees) as the speaker base will permit. You get extra loading and zero worries of direct reflection of the backwave as it bounces put the sides and is delayed enough in the room from the front direct wave that the brin has no trouble recognizing it as a reflection so no smear. This position realy opens up floor space in small rooms and it works well. You can even give a listen to physically stacking panels one directly behind the other as this will give you additional output. Some very lite open cell foam (thin) between the panels will insure they don't buzz at all but you can tape them together just to experiment (maintain polarity of the panels). Have some fun. You might even consider biamping your Acoustats with a mono block driving each transformer. Never had the time to try this or known anyone else who ever tried but I am sure that it would yield a big improvement. Much easier job for the amplifiers in terms of load. Best regards Moray James.
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