'Biefeld-Brown effect' based full range drivers - diyAudio
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Old 31st January 2006, 05:48 AM   #1
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Default 'Biefeld-Brown effect' based full range drivers

The reason for my interest in Biefeld-Brown effect/plasma based speakers
is the tension based (amplitude related and modulated) distortion from all the conventional designs
(electrostats and ribbons included), none of them truly 'float' or move freely
(plasma based microphones for the recording industry, anyone? ).

Here is a link to some Biefeld-Brown effect based projects http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm


Now, I could need some help with a/the solid state audio modulated power stage.
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Old 31st January 2006, 09:12 AM   #2
dnsey is offline dnsey  United Kingdom
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As a first guess, I'd be inclined to go for pulse width modulation of the EHT generator's oscillator. Fairly easy to do, and probably more linear (in terms of the ultimate physical effect) than FM - but that's just my 'intuition'.
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Old 3rd February 2006, 03:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by dnsey
As a first guess, I'd be inclined to go for pulse width modulation of the EHT generator's oscillator. Fairly easy to do, and probably more linear (in terms of the ultimate physical effect) than FM - but that's just my 'intuition'.
Seems to be a lot of interest in this

The apparent mojo-factor seems to be at large d: Anyway, [I think] this is going to be big (as Bailey would have put it), eventually. Plasma microphones included (Sound is most often created by 'tension/amplitude related distortion', certainly - and with plasma technology one has the opportunity to bring that original information intact all the way).

The shape of the 'ion thrusters' is an other question.

On the PWM, couldn't we just clamp in a decent class-D (/T) module (maybe preferably one with discrete FET's) here?
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Old 3rd February 2006, 11:13 AM   #4
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Don't know if the Biefeld brown effect will be ever used for sound reproduction but I got really interested and will make my own 'lifter'. Thanks for the link!!!
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Old 5th February 2006, 02:18 AM   #5
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Default Why not? Yeah.

Quote:
Originally posted by MJ Dijkstra
Don't know if the Biefeld brown effect will be ever used for sound reproduction but I got really interested and will make my own 'lifter'. Thanks for the link!!!
("Why not? Yeah." - Tim Leary's last words)

If it can move ions/air it would also be able to reproduce sound
(as no other existing transducer system or method - except of course
other plasma based - none of them are plagued by resonant effects).

If concerned about the high voltages involved (other thread) - TV-sets
has had equally high voltages in them for ever.

Anyway, good to see someone more interested in working on this
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Old 5th February 2006, 02:39 AM   #6
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I think the first paragraph says it all: "is able to lift its own weight plus an additional payload". Then there are lots of pictures that show these flimsy contraptions flying, but none are able to lift the mass of their power supply. I don't know what you think, but to me, lifting its own weight better include the power supply or it's not much use.

I suspect the "thrust" comes from ionizing and accelerating air molecules (even though the author claims it doesn't). You can make a motor that spins very fast this way, but it won't move much of a load either.

You'll probably have much more success using this to produce audio than you will using it to make a flying machine.

I_F
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Old 5th February 2006, 02:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by I_Forgot

You'll probably have much more success using this to produce audio than you will using it to make a flying machine.

I_F
Excellent then!
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Old 5th February 2006, 04:33 AM   #8
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Default Efficacy

There should be some data available to make an estimate on its
efficiency (flying).

On a straight hand, a few milliamps of power lifting a few grammes
of weight. This doesn't sound all that unreasonable?
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Old 5th February 2006, 09:41 AM   #9
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Well, 5 milli-amps at 20 KV is still 100 Watts.

These lifters are not that effective. Maybe they can be improved by using ESL-technology (high resistive coating of the counter electrode instead of aluminium foil)
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Old 5th February 2006, 01:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Efficacy

Quote:
Originally posted by Indalhc
There should be some data available to make an estimate on its
efficiency (flying).

On a straight hand, a few milliamps of power lifting a few grammes
of weight. This doesn't sound all that unreasonable?
One of the "flying saucer" pages showed a graph of the current and voltage applied to a flying saucer toy that weighed about 6 grams. It was using 200uA at 40kV. That's 8 watts to lift 6 gm. When someone can figure out how to make a power source that provides 40kV at 200uA weigh less than 6 gms (or can scale the whole thing up) it might become practical...

I_F
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