First of all i want to tell you something that it was used allot on old papercone tweeters and the ones that i have in my old speakers are paper cone. The thing is in good old times the engineers laqueured (very thin) 20 to 30% of the membrane of the tweeter from the coil to otside the dust cap to extend the top end, and that is what i used first time, and i was right. Thats why the ruban sounded so refined and microdetailed. Look at the pic bellow. You cannot see because of the low light but there is concentrated laqueur on all the coil and it extends outside the coil to the exteriour edges of the cuts (i used interrupted black lines to show where it extends). I used a very thin layer of laquer here just to saturate the paper snd to make it resonate to hights.
In my first version i used super glue only at the laterall edges of the coil (where you see the continous black lines). On my second version i surrounded my coil with super glue (black continous lines from first version+ at the top and bottom) and putted dots of super glue between the wholes from the center of the coil. The results for this second atempt are dissastrous.
Tests takes me very few time, as now i know exactly how to center the coil, the cilinders, make cuts, adjustments, i have another 14meters of paper to test with..BUT the biggest time takes me to do the coil( 2hours or more) and bond the whole thing (another 2 hours). The bonding has to be perfect, and perfectly alligned, or else it would caise some serious trouble when aligning the cilinders..
My bigest prob is the production of the coil...
Cheers
Sergiu
In my first version i used super glue only at the laterall edges of the coil (where you see the continous black lines). On my second version i surrounded my coil with super glue (black continous lines from first version+ at the top and bottom) and putted dots of super glue between the wholes from the center of the coil. The results for this second atempt are dissastrous.
Tests takes me very few time, as now i know exactly how to center the coil, the cilinders, make cuts, adjustments, i have another 14meters of paper to test with..BUT the biggest time takes me to do the coil( 2hours or more) and bond the whole thing (another 2 hours). The bonding has to be perfect, and perfectly alligned, or else it would caise some serious trouble when aligning the cilinders..
My bigest prob is the production of the coil...
Cheers
Sergiu
Attachments
Yes i use the patents but only the things that improves hights and lowers the mass as this is the key for further improvements. Lowering the mass too much improves the hights quite well but dont favorise the lower end. It has to be just right.BTW one thing is hard to tell since you opted to use every patent in the bookis where stuff works and where it does not work. i would be happy to send you some coils when you got your mic sorted out. because of this.
I cant test all options alone, and if we for our self want to be clear what works and does not work should test it. when you use every trick at once you wont be able to tell what works and what does not work at all. and i bet there are quite a few of these patents that just not justify the effort.
For me for instance cutting holes int he middle part between the 2 rows of traces did not results in more high freq but less. cutting of the backside did work, cutting of the remaining 1 cm of paper that was still being there doing nothing resulted in another 1.5 khz . i think the trick is it has to be really really rigged from coil to the arc's since this is how it transports the high's to the rest of the membrane, the more you cut in it the less rigid it is gone be. i can imagine where you cut the pieces out in the front next to the coil need some sort of reinforcement just so you did lose weight but increase rigidness as well.
My strategy is to first find out wich is the best "cut" or wich cuts are better and wich not. Then test double coil vs single coil, and at the end i want to test just for my amusement a 30gr/sqm paper with double sided Al coil made on 120gr/sqm former with all the hinges and cuts included just to see how it works, and then the supreme test use silk or rice paper (has also 30gr) in the same arrangement as the standard 30 gr paper. Try finding a method that works and write everithing here so that others will do/ try and then save all this thread to a word dock and print it because im too laisy to write two times. This is what i plan to.
Cheers
Sergiu
i can tell you this, the cylinder itself needs to be rigid and usually heavy(damping)the center must be rigid and light. 30 grams from where they meet to where they are fixed to the structure is not gone work. i tried washi paper and the results where terrible.
when you play low frequency's the cylinders are gone wobble instead of making a normal forward motion
This last variant has more than 3mm moves. I measured and reaches 4mm at peaks with hinges and the elastics with no filter.so it is no prob. The secret is that you dont have to glue them on all their surface, you have to glue them only on the half (or more) of their surface wich then is sticked to the metal plates. This way the coil moves more freely. The hinges also keeps the coil always centered and in the gap and they always needs to be allinged with the coil. Now i figured out that they have the same role as the interior cuts. Also in my case i dont hear any hights coming from the top and bottom but somehow they contribute at lowering the overall mass of the coil and this way the coil moves more freely and produces more mids and hights. The only cuts that really produces sounds are the cuts outside the coil from the front and back. When those cuts are very close to the coil they boost the hights but when you increase this space you lose hights thats what i discoverred but didnt noticed if you gain mids because of the lack of measurements.
Thats why when you cut the rest (the surplus) of the back you gain more hights.
M glad that you agree with me that Al coil is the way..
Thats why when you cut the rest (the surplus) of the back you gain more hights.
M glad that you agree with me that Al coil is the way..
i can tell you this, the cylinder itself needs to be rigid and usually heavy(damping)the center must be rigid and light. 30 grams from where they meet to where they are fixed to the structure is not gone work. i tried washi paper and the results where terrible.
Thank you for the feedback. I really apreciate this input.
Im sorry you should have to wait for me to burn a coil again to measure the whole thing. And another thing is that my measuring tool for this aspect is my wifes tweighing tool and she use it when shes on diets. Its very small and she will kill me if i broke or modify it for measuring the membrane plus coil. Maibe i will have to money next month to buy miself one. Thats why i could only tell you in my previous post the Al coil mass and no cilinders.
Cheers
Sergiu
120gr/sqm canson paper. The 220gr/sqm was used by Francois Deminier on the originall Janus 50 but comsidering that o dont habe those bigger magnets and the originall steel i used this lighter paper. And another considerent for this is that the french guys from the french forum used this paper with succes with the original magnets and steel and gained some more dB.
So my conclusion is that we have to lower the coils internal mass so it will move more freely and extends the hights, and then find the right combination of external cuts to boost outside in front and back the resulted sound.
An ideea comes to my mind for tomorrow. A new stile of cuts..
Cheers
Sergiu
An ideea comes to my mind for tomorrow. A new stile of cuts..
Cheers
Sergiu
Its "c" a grain 120gr/sqm canson paper. Best buy is the 10 meters by 1.5 meters roll.
Hi Wrine,
Here it is. My rubanoide and the explanations from yesterday night:
First part:
https://youtu.be/lLEYYXufg4w
Sec part:
https://youtu.be/y2ZW_MEhRoo
Cheers
Sergiu
Here it is. My rubanoide and the explanations from yesterday night:
First part:
https://youtu.be/lLEYYXufg4w
Sec part:
https://youtu.be/y2ZW_MEhRoo
Cheers
Sergiu
You are doing just fine with your English no problem at all !!i tend to forget what i wanted to say or cant find the words when i have a camera in my hands haha.
thanks for the video its nice , its funny its far more personal ill try to make some more to
Btw they sounds pretty good!. about the sound inside, there is sound you will see when you measure mic is up and running. BTW nice amplifier
about the resonances i gave it a thought, and the fact yours is higher might help to keep the cylinders more stable. (also i used thinner paper) yours is 2 times as big so it has to do 2 times less witch helps to.
but all and all your on the right track so it seems. i am very curious about the measurements!!i hope you manage to get the old coil type of sound back!
sax one take 5 is niceee, love it
btw it is loud enough phone gets distorted before the ruba does hehe
thanks for the vids! i like the idea!. loking forward to your next. i got a bit sidetracked as always so doing some other stuff that came by haha
thanks for the video its nice , its funny its far more personal
ill try to make some more to Btw they sounds pretty good!. about the sound inside, there is sound you will see when you measure mic is up and running. BTW nice amplifier
about the resonances i gave it a thought, and the fact yours is higher might help to keep the cylinders more stable. (also i used thinner paper) yours is 2 times as big so it has to do 2 times less
witch helps to. but all and all your on the right track so it seems. i am very curious about the measurements!!i hope you manage to get the old coil type of sound back!
sax one take 5 is niceee, love it
btw it is loud enough
phone gets distorted before the ruba does hehethanks for the vids! i like the idea!. loking forward to your next. i got a bit sidetracked as always
so doing some other stuff that came by haha
You are doing just fine with your English no problem at all !!i tend to forget what i wanted to say or cant find the words when i have a camera in my hands haha.
Thanks Wrine, I was like that too it is really hard to find the words.
thanks for the video its nice , its funny its far more personal
It has to be personal, so that other people should see that this is home made diy, with the coffe on the table and lots of ideas.
Btw they sounds pretty good!. about the sound inside, there is sound you will see when you measure mic is up and running. BTW nice amplifier
I have to wait some more because it seems that the other ruban that broke, took with him the output pair from the right channel. I havent noticed because it was still making sound (just one fuse blowd) but when you crank up the volume the sound distorts badly and when the amp was switched off the right channel was still singing for about 30secs showing that it was not working proprely (the left channel wich is ok discharged the 0.5F capacitance from his half in 2-3 secs)... I have another pair of original sanken 2sc3856/2sa1492 but its not paired in 5% like left channel, its paired in 10% wich its not so good (it will distort more on max volume)...
I have a 10w class AB amp wich i will use for ruban tests in the future to avoid these nasty situations..
Thanks for the apreciacions for my amp.
Yesterday i looked for the components for the "phantom" psu for the mic so maybe next week will be finished.
about the resonances i gave it a thought, and the fact yours is higher might help to keep the cylinders more stable. (also i used thinner paper) yours is 2 times as big so it has to do 2 times less
That's what i think of too. You have seen for yourself that you could not perceive any resonances. Measurements will speak for themselvs i think, but i hope there arent so much resonances.
but all and all your on the right track so it seems. i am very curious about the measurements!!i hope you manage to get the old coil type of sound back!
Yes, i hope this too. Yesterday i did nothing, just searched for output transistors (the best sound achieved was with 20Mhz devices for my Hiraga amp) and the components for the mic supply, BUT aded some laqueur on a bigger portion on the cilinders on this variant and will test and post the results today.
sax one take 5 is niceee, love it
The sax on take five, in reality is just soo real, and other instruments too. The realism is incredible.
btw it is loud enough
I know. Although its in 1080p format the mic isnt so clear. On take five melody i had blown my years from the hights and sax.
thanks for the vids! i like the idea!. loking forward to your next. i got a bit sidetracked as always
No probs my friend. You're welcome.
Thanks for the encouragements and keep up the good work too.
Cheers
Sergiu
