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Old 23rd November 2006, 12:19 PM   #21
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Hi

Yes I think your questions are useful in getting to
te heart of this wave-bending design. As I said I want
to build and measure one full size and maybe treated paper
is the key or going to some of the more exotic materials that
the later units from the original designer use. The Linaeums
originally had silk but the Radio Shack version used mylar. I was
myself thinking of Kodak Estar type base material as it is dimensionally stable and if made thin enough might be a good choice. The flat bobbin used in the French design does seem a bit heavy but the neo magnets are very strong.
Hope someone out there has time and patience to experiment. I have a feeling the idea is very simple but the devil is in the detail!

Good Luck

AnthonyPT


http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/aero/aero.html
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Old 23rd November 2006, 09:10 PM   #22
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Default Silk Screen material...

This is made from polyester (same as mylar) and I think that a woven fabric will have less potential for resonance. There are many thicknesses available. Regards Moray James.
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Old 24th November 2006, 01:12 PM   #23
APi is offline APi  Finland
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Default Re: Silk Screen material...

I investigated a bit and found that FR4 for the whole diagraph is propably ok for midrange but not for high frequencies since itīs far too stiff and thick having resonances there.

So letīs go for paper on silk. Silk is not as expensive as you might think. Much cheaper than magnets. Still having pretty ideal properties. Also be fabric with less potential for any kind of resonances as James told.

Iīll try to combine ideas with Linaeum and Aero in my DIY design. There is a good document:

US2005152575:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=E...2005152575&F=0
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Old 24th November 2006, 01:43 PM   #24
APi is offline APi  Finland
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There is one thing that can be a problem with Aero -type of designs:

Aero is a closed box. Therefore moving membrane generates a lot of pressure inside. Pressure difference tries to push air back and forth above and below the membrane where is small gaps. The amount of needed air is the same than moved by the membrane.

There are two options:

1) Even if this gap is thin the foils is even thinner, I quess. Therefore gaps have small resistance for air movement and air velocity can be huge causing a lot of side effects like distortion.

Or...

2) Internal volume of the box donīt practically change at all! The pressure difference push the whole foil reshaping it so that volume keeps almost constant. This might cause, what said about the design, that sound velocity in the membrane is the same than in the air. Not really but foil can act like this because pressure changes itīs shape.

Is there anybody who can answer which of these two takes place?
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Old 26th November 2006, 08:40 AM   #25
APi is offline APi  Finland
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Okay... I speak too much. But this one is important.

There is a FREE open source CAE Linux live-DVD that has everything needed to simulate aero -type of designs and how membrane act. Resonances, radiation pattern, frequency response, ... If you only can make a realistic model and have enough computing power.

http://www.caelinux.com/

If anybody can build such models please share. I'll try and now be quiet for a while.
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Old 11th July 2007, 06:01 PM   #26
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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http://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata...phon%5F1%2EJPG
http://cgi.ebay.de/Alter-Lautspreche...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 11th July 2007, 06:23 PM   #27
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Wow! Nothing is really new is it?
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Old 1st December 2007, 05:16 AM   #28
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Hi,
Just came across the 6moons article
about the French Wave-Bender design that
started this thread. Seems Audio Consulting
has packaged the unit complete with a brass
plaque in a duo form for a mere 15000 Euros
Hope the designer Francois Diminiare benefits
and I still wonder how Paul Pattock has not
hit hard with patent rights or has the Linaeum
finally gone beyond 19 years of age (:-))
The magnet costs for the projects do add up but
even the singles will sell for a mere 9000Euros.
I estimated that DIY making a Hp82 (original post)
would cost about $AUD1200 a pair with everything.
So lets see if they can sell them and make them consistant
as that is the trick with Linnys to make them consistant.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...rubanoide.html

Regards

AnthonyPT
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Old 3rd December 2007, 04:50 PM   #29
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Blimey! E15,000 for wing nuts, old toilet rolls and an amplifier that looks like one of my school electronics projects.

It had better sound good
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Old 3rd December 2007, 06:15 PM   #30
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...also they describe the radiation as bipolar. This implies that the front and rear waves are in phase. I don't see how this can be correct, since the whole assembly, driven by wires in a central magnetic field, moves just like a speaker cone or ribbon.

Very tempting to try and build one though, just for kicks.

Ed
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