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Old 16th January 2006, 02:44 AM   #11
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Hi
After reading SL's 2006 CES show report
mentioned on Mac's post on a dipole thread, does the new
Pipedream S7 monitor use a familiar tweeter technology?
When is a VAT (TM) transducer anything more
than a Linaeum Transducer under a new name
or marketing hype? Maybe way off but it
looks to me just like a Linny!
Anyone know the specs of this tweeter?

Of course the French DIY design has a lot more bandwidth
and provided the magnets can be found would be a
really interesting alternative project. Maybe the VAT (TM)
design is a sister or brother under the skin?

Regards

AnthonyPT

http://www.nearfieldacoustics.com/S7monitor.html
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Old 6th March 2006, 01:08 PM   #12
APi is offline APi  Finland
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This design is so "simple" that it cannot be hifi. But what if it is?

I wonder how bad polar response Deminiereīs design has in treble since radiation area is so wide? Any measurements?

Would be interesting to test the idea with smaller design like 1" diameter paper tubes.
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Old 6th March 2006, 03:35 PM   #13
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Yes,APi

Some of the best ideas are simple in life!
Wave bending speakers from Linauem to Aerfoil
(both from designer Paul Paddock.) &
from Deminiere to the Nearfield VAT
seems to have their critics and followers.
Manger of course uses a different approach to wave bending.
As to why the Airfoil (son of Linaeum ) speakers never made it to market I am not sure. The basic Dipole Linaeum wave bender
does a fair job from 2.5k to 25K with two inch high hoop membranes in mylar or silk. I see no reason why a 300mm
version would not go down to 250-500hz if designed properly. The weight of the flat voicecoil bobbin that goes through the magnetic gap in a horizontal motion back and forth (as this is a dipole) must be kept to a minimum for quick response. Consistency of manufacture might be a problem at an artisan level. I still hope to build a pair in the future.
I hope to get a friend to see the Deminiere units in operation but it may take time from here in OZ ! The Linaeums in the Radio Shack and Aura units are your 1-2 inch production models that work and were sold in the 90s.


AnthonyPT

http://support.radioshack.com/suppor...oc63/63211.pdf
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Old 7th March 2006, 01:38 PM   #14
APi is offline APi  Finland
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyPT
The basic Dipole Linaeum wave bender
does a fair job from 2.5k to 25K with two inch high hoop membranes in mylar or silk. I see no reason why a 300mm
version would not go down to 250-500hz if designed properly.
I understand this construction works and can be pretty good. I will build one myself to test the idea.

But I donīt understand how this construction could possible have good polar response in treble since both sound velocity in paper versus air and paper shape cannot match so well that it produce illusion of a single line source but at least two. And when those two are inches apart, as propably are, treble is good only right in front of the speaker. Also with smaller Radioshack tweeter not to mention this self-made paper speaker which polar response can be horrible.
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Old 7th March 2006, 03:17 PM   #15
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Hi

The Linaeum type speaker seems to perform its wave bending in a figure of eight pattern and usually you do not have a dipole linaeum facing you. They advise a toed in angle for best results. The Monopole version had different rules.If it is so bad why does Nearfield seem to resurrect the idea in 2006 in their VAT tweeter? Paper, silk, doped ripstock nylon. mylar. estar may all work. All I can say is I listen to my Linaeums everyday and they please me. Now I have the chance to maybe have some that go from 250hz to 25khz! If it does not work I can make some ribbons instead with the $300 worth of magnets!
If you Google wavebending loudspeakers you get a lot of interesting hits. Also some theory to look at. It is different to more conventional transducers

regards

AnthonyPT
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Old 16th May 2006, 03:50 AM   #16
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Hi

Looks like the Aeros (Son of Son of Linaeum)
are moving along towards a release.
6 Moons have a comment on it and there is the
Aero site. The focus is even polar response
for a wide sweet spot and a wave bending membrane
material that behaves with a "complementary velocity to air" in some form. That's what is claimed !
Always thought the technology was too good to die!
Dont like the hype though! Let it stand on its own merits!

Regards

AnthonyPT

http://www.aerospeakers.com/designer.html

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/aero/aero.html

http://www.aerospeakers.com/imagsound.html
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Old 28th May 2006, 06:34 PM   #17
uwe300 is offline uwe300  Poland
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Hi!
I've made it in 20min using parts from my DIY ribbon tweeter, it is only the front part and plays just in horizontal position. It realy works, like for a DIY loudspeaker made in 20min sounds great. There is a potential in it!
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Old 1st June 2006, 09:31 AM   #18
APi is offline APi  Finland
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I couldnīt quite understand how you make voice coil stay and return back exactly in the middle of magnets? Paper itself holds it quite well but you definitely need something more. Something like elastic band?

What else to use and how to attach it so that doesnīt affect to sound?
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Old 2nd June 2006, 06:38 AM   #19
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Hi
In the BIg French design the suspension of the sliding voice coil between the magnets seems to be held using covered elastic bands used in clothes. To get it to be stable may take a bit of experimenting.
The inventor of this wave bending design, Paul Paddock seems to have gone from small strips in his Linauem design to multiple small strips in his Aerfoil design to a solid full length strip in the new Aero design. This shows that the design is fairly flexible? I have been wanting to open up one of my 8 Linaeums to check the suspension but believe it it probably rubber of some sort.
For the 300mm Unit on the Web the cost of the magnets is holding me up at the moment !
Hope we can all see a result of our labours with these wave benders.

regards

AnthonyPT
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Old 23rd November 2006, 07:52 AM   #20
APi is offline APi  Finland
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyPT

http://home.tele2.fr/mon-site-perso/

Very impressive design with large band of operation.
(250-20000 Hz), SPL 102 dB
Paper is not an ideal material for this since itīs properties varies a lot depending air conditions like moisture. It changes sound velocity in paper and therefore whole radiation pattern with this kind of design. So if you adjust your system once it can work in a different way next day.

No good...

How about using FR4 for the whole diagraph, not just for the voice coil? Just etch copper away. 100um thick FR4 is ~120g/m2 compared to 70g/m2 with paper. Benefits:

1) Much more stable.

2) Diagraph can also be used to hold the voice coil in place between magnet gap and no elastic band is needed.

3) You can use thin copper stripes on FR4 membane to bring connectors out from the voice coil.

4) 1&2&3 makes it possible to build minimum gap between membrane and the box -> less acoustic short circuit between front and back of the panel.

2 questions:

1) Why this kind of design can produce good treble if similar sized midrange elements canīt?

2) How to minimize eddy currents in iron and possible distortion? Where to put copper short-circuited ring, similar that used in traditional speakers or is it even possible?
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