Curved ESL - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th November 2005, 03:56 AM   #1
MrPin is offline MrPin  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: calgary
Default Curved ESL

I am looking into building a pair of Curved ESL's, but noticed that not many people pruse this? Is there something i dont know about them that I should?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2005, 05:46 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern Germany
Hi Mr pin,

a curved ESL is one of the most challenging designs. The two stators need to be bend perfectly and appropriate spacer distances cannot just be defined, but require a lot of testing to find the best matching distances.

people who built curved ones invested a lot of time in developing and manufacturing tools to achieve precise results.

Be aware, if this will be your first ESL project it takes months to get it run and possibly years before it sounds as you expect it to do.

capaciti
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2005, 04:05 PM   #3
MrPin is offline MrPin  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: calgary
I guessed it was something like that.
The only reason why I was concidering doing this was because i wish to build a pair of ESL's that are not so wide as to take up a huge amount of room.

So I pose a new question, what would be the best way to achive good sound dispertion with a panal only about 15-20 inches wide?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2005, 04:38 PM   #4
hates ground loops
diyAudio Member
 
Rodeodave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the alps
Blog Entries: 1
Hi,

read the book "The ESL-Cookbook" by Robert Sanders, he suggests some nice designs and techniques for curved ESLs, seem really challenging though.
__________________
Gravity - Making the G since 13.7 billion B.C.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2005, 07:50 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default flat screen speakers...

hi ppl....
capaciti may well know about this...or anyone who knows alot about making speakers...(esp alternative types)

i dj in england and used to go to a club which was in an old theatre and the sound system was fantastic,emphasised no doubt by the brilliant acoustics of the room....

well....one night i was in the downstairs back bar area and all of a sudden the whole wall in front of me was suddenly turned on with sound and it literally brought tears to my eyes..(which i have to say made me run around the club frantically searching for someone who could turn it down a bit as it was unthinkably too loud for the size of the club and the amount of people in there at this time).


they had never had this in there before and when i did find someone who worked there to ask about it.....and please could you turn it down a bit its punching a hole in my ears!!!........he said that it was a new thing and they were just trying it out that night....

basically that wall had no obvious speaker there..like all the usual ones....and when we investigated it ...it was literally the size of the wall....and not a small wall may i add...black....so we couldnt see it till we heard it ,,haha,,,,and very flat,,,hmmmmmmmmm..???
well was speaking to someone else and im pretty sure they said there was a new way of making speakers like this,,,and even using things like CLING FILM!!!!!???!!!! inside them as some kind of part to it...WHAT...???did i hear this right....and apparantly pretty cheap to make too...

i know it may sound wierd but its true....so flat speakers...like screen effect ones.....who knows about this....anyone????

i mean its only what you would expect really now i guess....we have flat tv and monitor screens,,,so why not flat speaker screens.....
so how are they made up ...anyone,,,,what different methods can be used etc....and not too much electrical terminology please...where possible,,,,thanks,,,,
easy,
nicole..8)
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2005, 11:03 AM   #6
hates ground loops
diyAudio Member
 
Rodeodave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the alps
Blog Entries: 1
Were these electrostatic speakers or something different?

(May sound like a dumb question, but if i start explaining the principles of electrostatic Loudspeakers and it turns out it was something completely different.... )
__________________
Gravity - Making the G since 13.7 billion B.C.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2005, 03:34 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern Germany
hi Folks,

i guess those speakers are like the "NXT" panels. There is a voice coil mounted to any resonating surface, which "shakes" the surface in a chaotic way.

Depending on the material its possible to achieve a quit flat frequency response. The sound waves on the surface look like rings in the water, when you drop a stone into. As a result there is good dispersion even of higher frequencies. If you mount a lot of those drivers to large surfaces you get a really amazing spatiale sound anywhere in the roomm. But do not expect to hear fine details.

There is german joint venture which offers such systems as a inbuild-system for standard wall structures. The amplifier+digital frequency compensation is integrated into the wall (looks like an inwall fuse housing)

capaciti
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2005, 03:59 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Default good sound dispersion

If you want good sound dispersion don't build a panel 15 - 20 inches wide. Keep your panel narrow. I agree with Calvin that you don't need very much curve if you want to build such a panel. You can obtain very good results with flat panels from 9 inches down to 4 inches. What panels have you listened to that you like?
Since you are in Calgary why don't you PM me. Regards Moray James.
__________________
moray james
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2005, 06:31 PM   #9
MrPin is offline MrPin  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: calgary
So I guess my Final Question is, If I do go 9-4 inches for the width of the panels, would there be any other consideration I Should be looking at before going and building these?
If they are only 9 inches wide, I would love to go about 52 inches tall, and have the panelís frequency response from about 20 kHz down to about 250 Hz, and cover the rest with a dynamic driver. I am very new to the ESL Side of things, and they appealed to me because the shape and sound is so dynamic.

I am headed to England in 6 days, and I Would love to see this wall speaker. I have never seen anything like that before in my life.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2005, 10:31 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern Germany
Hi MrPin,

1. if you want to go to 250 hz make your panel 8-10 inches width.
2. For the height consider that the middle of the panel need to be on your "ear-level" when you sit, which is typically 37". So if its 52" tall your woofer housing can be 11" height only.
3. Use a stator-membran distance of 0,039-0,06"
4. use High voltage supply @ 2000 V
5. use a stepup ratio of 1:70 to 1:80
6. use 1/4 mil mylar and stretch it very strong (dont heatshrink)
7. dont mess around with graphite rubbing. take EC-Coating to make the membran conductive.
8. your woofer will blow the membran to the stators at higher levels. to prevent you should put silicone dots on of the perforated steel before you glue it to the mylar to it. place the dots in the centerline of the stator, with a distance of about 4" from dot to dot. When you put the stator to the mylar the dots are squeezed and adhere to the mylar surface.

Don't try to make a curved one. You have to deal with basics of ESL,which is an exercise at all. If you learned your lesson take the next challenge for a curved one.

have fun and success, capaciti
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Curved ELS panels Johan_Ch Planars & Exotics 4 2nd November 2007 08:20 AM
Curved sides... Kongen Multi-Way 6 3rd January 2004 09:14 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:53 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2