B&G NEO8 PLANAR TRANSDUCER crossed to two Dayton classic 8"(DC200-8) - diyAudio
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Old 28th November 2005, 07:19 AM   #1
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Default B&G NEO8 PLANAR TRANSDUCER crossed to two Dayton classic 8"(DC200-8)

Hello all,
First off I am new to this hobby so bear with me.
The plan, simply stated above is what I am thinking, enclosed in a transmission line of course. Now from what I have read 2-way systems are simpler, especially for a newbie but will cost about the same if you want deep bass extension, so that is the goal. However, $63 a piece for the planar, I might want to go 3-way. On the flip sied, from reading other posts, it seems desirable to avoid having a crossover in the critical region based on the Fl/Mun. curves, hence the B&G's that cover 500hz up to 20k and the dual 8's should only be a couple dB's down in the high 20's (hz) which is fine.

Now part of my question is does anyone have any experience with these B&G's (partsexpress 264-712)?
The other part and I dont know the technical term to describe this, but when you mate a nearly massless planar to a "heavy" cone driver, can the cone move fast enough to match the planar (is this phase alignment?). I know that ESL's do this commonly but that is usually below ~100-150hz as sub-duty, will I run into any problems crossing at 500-700hz.


Before this gets too long... if anyone would like to bring up any thoughts or ideas, positive or negative on this plan feel free. It seems logical to me, but that's not experience talking.
BTW, Im looking to eventually build 5 speakers (HT obviously), Im going to start with two to test the design, if anyone even recomends this design, should I build all 5, or at least the fronts and center identical.
Thanks in advance
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Old 15th December 2005, 12:25 PM   #2
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(sorry for my english)
Hi,
If you are a"newby"without a measurements-set I think the mission
is not easy possible!
Indeed your idea is good but you want too much......
Look at the htguide.com forum , in the section "mission possible.."
there is a thread " Arvo part III heavy metal testing" page 9.
Jon Marsh have posted a frequency response of the Neo8 mounted in a very big baffle ( quasi half-space I presume). Are you Ok to take that curve and to simulate the behaviour in your baffle-cabinet?
Sure , it is possible x-over 600-700 Hz 2nd order minimum (electrical).
Again, two 8" in TL. One is not enough?
A closed-box is easy, a TL not.
Dayton classic: maybe a Perless CSX ( or Vifa ) can be considered,IMO.
Obiouvsly this is only my opinion, but I hope can help you.
Regards,
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Old 15th December 2005, 09:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by inertial
[B
-If you are a"newby"without a measurements-set

-Indeed your idea is good but you want too much......

-Look at the htguide.com forum, in the section "mission possible.."
there is a thread " Arvo part III heavy metal testing" page 9.

-Sure , it is possible x-over 600-700 Hz 2nd order minimum (electrical).

-Again, two 8" in TL. One is not enough?
A closed-box is easy, a TL not.

-Dayton classic: maybe a Perless CSX ( or Vifa ) can be considered,IMO.
[/B]
First off, thanks for the reply, your the second, the first person replied who used a single neo8 crossed at 700hz to two 6.5" vifa's, I dont know the f3 of his system.

Out of curiosity, how am I wanting too much? Is that not why we are here?

The measurement set that I have is speaker workshop and a good microphone, most people seem to get by with this hopefully I will too.
I read the article you mentioned, they are building line arrays and they seem to be fairly impressed with them with the exception of the on-axis roll off at 18khz and the beaming in the 6khz and up range, this Im not too happy to see, but is the loss of dispersion acceptable with the benefit of a wide range low distortion driver?

You asked why 2, I decided on two to match efficiencies, the woofers are about 3 dB below the neo8, doubling up should match them nicely.

Why a TL, sound quality of course, just so you know Im not new to woodworking, and Im going to use solidworks to model the enclosure before I start cutting. This project is partly a learning experience and I want to gain experience tuning a tL enclosure.
(I have an idea for a varialbe length and therefore tunable TL, and I want to see how it works)

I picked the Daytons over the others for the low end extension, this is basically the only reason, at the time I didnt think of transient response or distortion, which is not advertised anyway.
Im looking to get low bass, an f3 at or below 30hz would make me happy, would the peerless csx or the vifas do this?
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Old 16th December 2005, 08:03 AM   #4
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Hi nunayafb,
Oh, I am sorry but maybe I had understood wrong!
You have MLS, you are familiar with x-overs,you are familiar with woodworking and you know TL theory . Very well.
You are an expert,not a "newby"!
Anyway IMO the woofers are not at the same quality-level of the Neo8.
The single 8" TL recall me the Clements. Nice.
Double 8".
What do you think about a 2.5 ways?
What do you think about a filter a la John Bau (Spica) or a la John Kreskowsky?
Be ware with the Neo8 : it start as pointsource and ....finish as linesource.
Best experimentations!
Cheers,
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Old 24th January 2006, 08:22 PM   #5
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Location: Athens, Georgia, US
well I guess we have something in common: we want to use the awesome NEO planar driver for great mid/hi frequency coherence. Further, I'm building FIVE, count 'em, five for a Home theatre project, each with a NEO and what I've outlined below.

Have you considered bi-amping your project? That may solve some, if not all your problems. Especially with the low-end. You'll pick up some of the speed you need to keep up with the NEOs. Read on, you'll see I love bi-amping and I have tri-amping in mind.

I plan to cross it over to two 5.25s or two 6.5s for mid bass and then cross those over to my subs. Still in the market for the mid/bass drivers.

The one problem I want to solve with minimal (electronic) help is that frequency taper below 1Khz.

Thanks for reading this far

Tony
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Old 25th January 2006, 01:25 AM   #6
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Thanks for the reply, I thought briefly about bi-amping but I have one 7.1 receiver right now and will not be doing any amp building for awhile.
In addition, I want to gain experience with crossover design and implementation.

I spoke to a guy (email) who used two 6.5's w/ a neo and loved it, I chose the two 8's for bass extension, I will use the sub (18"fosgat sub in ~6 cube box) for movies but for music I want clean Tl type bass, flat to 30hz. I'll see how it goes.
As for building the 2 for surround, I would not recommend it,
1. it will be expensive.
2. From what I have read and heard,( various sources) it is generally better to use a form of di(bi)pole cant remember which, the one that uses double the amount of drivers out of phase. "This makes it harder to locate the surrounds to give a better effect", (dickason) not an exact quote but you get the idea.

I too will be using them for the LCR channels, and cannot wait to build them. I have not bought them because B&G might release the neo10 for diy, which is supposed to be so much better, and will extend to ~150hz.
BTW are you considering open baffle or boxed, I have been pondering OB but, Have not decided.
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Old 25th January 2006, 04:31 AM   #7
amt is offline amt  United States
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Default B & G Dipole

I have the xo schematics for this dipole design, and some text, that unfortunately is in German and a scan so not Google translatable. I am very interested in this design, but lack the time to build a pair. The woofers are discontinued but I would guess a similar spec could be found. I can send scans if you are interested. Its a bit complex but may be of help.

http://www.audax-speaker.de/pro30d.htm

amt
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Old 25th January 2006, 04:46 AM   #8
dtaylo3 is offline dtaylo3  United States
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Default Dipole x-over

I would love to see a copy of the x-over for that design, as I have been interested in that design for some time. Could you post it here or email it to me. Thanks.
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Old 25th January 2006, 04:01 PM   #9
amt is offline amt  United States
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dtaylo3

The jpg is too big to post, and compacting it renders it illegible. So I will email you both the schematic and the text.
Good luck

amt
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Old 16th February 2006, 06:34 PM   #10
mjon is offline mjon  Sweden
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Can you send the crossover and text to me as well?

Thanks!

/ Magnus
m-jon@spray.se
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