Ribbon v ESLs – which is better

[rick57]

"Readily" DIY say Bohlender Graebener ribbons http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....n%20speaker#rd

versus readily DIY eg E R Audio (years of experience) www.eraudio.com.au/

Both would sound excellent, with different dispersion patterns.
Which would handle crescendos better?
Which would be more durable?

[Audiophilenoob]

I certainly wouldn't copy those cheap BG ribbons...

for $500 something FAARRRRR better could be made... way better!

are you talking full range ESL vs Full range ribbon... or just for tweeters?

[Rob Mackinlay]

Hi Rick57, It's been a while since I visited this forum so I'm a bit rusty with the protocol, forgive me if I make any blues!!

I don't really understand your query here. Being the designer of all of E R Audios products I feel I should be able to help, perhaps if you can describe more clearly what your question is I can give a response.

Best regards

Rob

[rick57]

Not full range or tweeters, I’m thinking of 200 Hz & up.
Which has greater dynamic ability – playing the loud passages without any compression (or risk of reduced life).
Eg what is the maximum watts rms rating on the ER panels?

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by rick57
Not full range or tweeters, I’m thinking of 200 Hz & up.
Which has greater dynamic ability – playing the loud passages without any compression (or risk of reduced life).
Eg what is the maximum watts rms rating on the ER panels?

if you can somehow get a .6T - 1T field across a 1.5" wide gap I would think the ribbon would sound best... especially cause you talking about dynamic capabilites... a ribbon if you wanna spend the money can have very high efficency and also to my ears sound more dynamic than ESLs

ESLs sound REALLY nice though...

either design I would make two ribbon/2 ESL panels from the frequency range you're talking about

Wide ESLs can play 200 hz well.. but they drop off at 6khz or so... you'll want to make a "2-way ESL"... also the same for the ribbon... like a 1.5 " wide one to say 3khz then a .25 or .5" wide one to 20khz

[rick57]

Hi Audionoob

What do mean by “a .6T - 1T field”?
Which would you go for?

[Audiophilenoob]

the field strength refers to the magnetic field within the gap where the aluminum/planar material is suspended for a ribbon

the more field strength the more efficent, the more dynamic

a .5 telsa (T) field would be amazing across a 1" gap... let alone a 1.5" gap... it would require some big magnets

a ribbon with that much area and a .5T gap if you used 5.8 micron foil would be massively efficent as well and play very well to 200 hz or so (well more like 300-400hz)...

if you can "afford the 1T" field this is most ideal across the gap... this is twice as efficent as the .5T gap... you'd be approaching 105db/w maybe more with this

look for 101/db/w with the .5T and VERY thin ribbon material... somethign like 5.8 micron pure aluminum...

a 1.5" wide ribbon is as small as I would go for what you're looking to do... ideally 2" wide would be best...

the only advantage as far as dynamics over an ESL is that if you have the cash... these will be massively more efficent...

ESLs have lower distortion if done correctly though... unless you really research your ribbons

[Variac]

The BG's are a aluminum zigzag "coil" printed on a plastic substrate.
"true" ribbons are just a very thin piece of accordioned aluminum between the magnets. The "true" ribbon usually needs a transformer because its impedence is very low, but it is lighter, and some prefer them. I sure like mine...

A major reason for using narrower ribbons for higher frequencies is that they have wider dispersion.

[rick57]

Hi Rob

What is the telsa field and normal (or optional) gap in the ER panels?


Hi Audionoob

“a ribbon with that much area” ~ how much area?

“if you used 5.8 micron foil”.
IIRC, ER panels are only 3.8 microns

”a 1.5" wide ribbon is as small as I would go for”
The BG frames are 1.5" wide, I imagine the ribbons are only about 0.75” wide. They’re claimed to cover 150 Hz – 18.5 kHz.

Hi Variac
So BG ribbons are not true ribbons, but quasi ribbons – I believe quasi don’t sound as good, not the clarity?

[Variac]

BG's are "quasi" as mentioned above.

Magnaplaners use a narrow, very long ribbon for higher frequencies I don't know what its crossover frequency is or how it is suspended.