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Old 8th May 2005, 07:56 AM   #1
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Default esl shape Idea

I was thinking, If curved panels have more trouble with bass and flat panels are bad off axis. way not curve the last 3-8 inch's of the panel with the center still flat? I searched the forum and was shocked i found nothing as this seems like an easy idea.
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Old 8th May 2005, 09:10 AM   #2
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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it is an idea, but you've still got a problem with the "beaming effect"

the flat part of your esl stil beams the high frequenties, so i think it's useless...

but it's nice to hear that someone is still looking for a solutions to improve esl's
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Old 8th May 2005, 09:20 AM   #3
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Default other way round..

Hi,

a curved part in the middle and straight ´ears´ was the concept of the old ML CLS. A planar part in the middle doesn´t make much sense i.m.h.o, because of manufacturing probs. When the metal sheet is bowed, there will always be some inches of straightness at the edges left. Apart from that, I don´t think, that a combination of curvature and straightness is useful in generating a fullrange system. The easiest and best is still to use a curved panel together with a dipolar dynamic bass.

Yeah
Calvin
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Old 8th May 2005, 01:38 PM   #4
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Curving the panels a-la ML doesn't do much for dispersing highs. Look at polar plots of the things. The curve is there to make the assembly mechanically rigid, and maybe for asthetic reasons. If the panel width is greater than a wavelength (and it is at the upper end of the audio range) it's going to beam, slightly curved or not.

If you want high frequency horizontal dispersion you can segment the stators into narrow vertical strips. Drive the center from the full bandwidth signal, and then use resistors to connect to the strips as you go outward from the center. You will flatten the response at the same time you're broadening dispersion. Look at the Malme patent.

Quad does something similar in the ESL-63, though they use inductors instead of resistors to connect circular segments so that dispersion is increased in both horizontal and vertical directions. They say some some stuff about delay lines, and pulsating spheres, etc., but whatever you want to call it, the ultimate effect is increased dispersion in both horizontal and vertical dimensions.

No matter what you do to the radiation pattern, speakers will always sound best to the one person who is sitting in the "sweet-spot".

I_F
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Old 8th May 2005, 07:43 PM   #5
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Default curved/flat cls

Just take a look at the way a CLS (ML) is constructed. This is probably what you want. I have auditioned the CLS1 and it can sound very good.
Martin Logan talks about controlled dispersion. Although high frequences are still radiated across a limited angle, it doesn't sound 'beamy' to my ears. It is also better than electrical segmentation which is a step backwards to a multiple drivers design.
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Old 8th May 2005, 09:30 PM   #6
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Acoustat used two, three or four cells in a small radius, the effect is/was to spread the HF dispersion. It does work to some extent borne out by simple experiments with Acoustat cells set up flat and compared to the radiusing they used.

This approximates your idea pretty closely.

Which imaged "better" is a horse race on several levels.

Sound Labs did the same trick but with many smaller size cells positioned over a 1/4 cylinder...

The original Quad design tried to overcome this problem with a narrow strip for the highs, wider for the mids and widest for the bass - separate cells.

Beveridge overcomes this with a complex acoustic lens, acheiving supposedly a 180 deg dispersion across the spectrum!

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Old 9th May 2005, 05:12 AM   #7
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so what i get from this is that I should stick with my origanal idea as it will look and sound the best. cone sub 15-250 "maybe a TL focal", ESL Mid 250-4000, and plasma tweet 4000-40000
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Old 9th May 2005, 05:17 AM   #8
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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very interesting concept,
I'm very curious how you're going to build the plasma tweeter.

I was thinking about the same concept once, but then build as a line array. but i never build the plasma....
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Old 9th May 2005, 05:38 AM   #9
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info
http://www.plasmatweeter.de/eng_plasma.htm
http://www.ece.villanova.edu/~cdanjo/plasma.html
http://www.geocities.com/agalavotti/plasma.htm

I like the top one the most. and will more than likely use an alterd version of his.

A google serch will give you a LOT of info.
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Old 9th May 2005, 06:00 AM   #10
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Default doubts

Hi,

I doubt that Your concept sounds best. The reason is the strongly differing directivity of the three drivers. The big prob with bad sounding hybrid-ESLs is mainly the change in directivity between the globally distributing woofer and the dipolar and beaming ESL. Adding a third driver (which is wholely unnacessary with ESLs) just adds probs without solving one (btw. get rid of the illusion that a plasma is massless! Indeed is a ESL -with regard to membrane area- equally light or even lighter than the volume of the tiny flame! And the ESL´s distortion is much lower at higher levels).

Yeah
Calvin
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