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Old 24th November 2004, 10:31 PM   #1
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Default Final 0.3 Hybrid ESL

To anyone who has listened to this loudspeaker....

I am perplexed by a pair of Final 0.3 hybrid ESLs. The reviews seem generally complementary, however my own experience or these ESLs is of a thin and bright sound which is not at all pleasurable during longer-term listening. The brightness could be due to ‘beaming’ but the thinness seems to be due to an imbalance between the panel and the bass unit, causing a substantial and broad dip in the response in the crossover region between 200-600Hz.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has formed a similar impression of this ESL.

Tim.
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Old 24th November 2004, 11:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Final 0.3 Hybrid ESL

Quote:
Originally posted by TimA
To anyone who has listened to this loudspeaker....

I am perplexed by a pair of Final 0.3 hybrid ESLs. The reviews seem generally complementary, however my own experience or these ESLs is of a thin and bright sound which is not at all pleasurable during longer-term listening. The brightness could be due to ‘beaming’ but the thinness seems to be due to an imbalance between the panel and the bass unit, causing a substantial and broad dip in the response in the crossover region between 200-600Hz.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has formed a similar impression of this ESL.

Tim.

Hi TimA,

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that doesn't like the sound of the Final's not even one of them sounds like it has to!

The only ESL that really sound wonderfull is the Martin Logan CLS and other Hybride models from the same manufacture.
Not even Quad! With all due respect!

Final knows how to make nice looking ESL's but not nice sounding ones. Just my 2 cents.

Best regards,


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Old 29th November 2004, 09:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Re: Final 0.3 Hybrid ESL

Quote:
Originally posted by Audiofanatic
The only ESL that really sound wonderfull is the Martin Logan CLS and other Hybride models from the same manufacture.
Not even Quad! With all due respect!
Not even Quad ! Not even Quad !

Quad ESl's sound quite lovely actually, especially with their sub stands, though hard to place correctly.

Martin logan's CLS is better, i agree, but was way more expensive and needed a powerplant.
After the neverending Sequel i became thoroughly DISSAPOINTED in the brand.
Still, if i had my birthday wish, i'd love a set of Martin Logan Statement. First edition, not SE please.
That i was honoured to attend its performance in Paris, on the Isle de Paris, at its world tour, and it was utter utter
amazement.
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Old 29th November 2004, 09:44 PM   #4
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And the CLS is not a hybrid,
nanananananah !!
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Old 4th December 2004, 10:15 AM   #5
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Thanks for the comments.

A new (better) bass drive unit and a few changes in the cross-over have helped considerably....getting there steadily. However, the hunt for an amplifier that sounds happy driving the 0.3s continues.

Tim.
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Old 29th January 2005, 12:44 PM   #6
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A solution to the Final 0.3’s thin sound.

The following applies to what I believe is an updated (by Final) version of the 0.3ESL which apparently boasts a modified panel design. I notice also that the bass unit is cosmetically different from that shown in one or two reviews, so the following comments may not necessarily apply across the board to all 0.3ESLs.

As previously mentioned in this thread both my friend (its owner) and I found this speaker lacking fullness, sounding thin and bright on most material. Though there seemed to be enough low bass, below 80Hz or so, we thought there was a broad dip above this frequency, all the way up to around 400-600Hz where the bass unit is crossed over to the panel. Some crude measurements were enough to confirm this by indicating this dip to be in the region of 6dB, however as ESL panels seem to sound louder than figures suggest the subjective imbalance could have been even worse. Eventually we arrived at a simple and inexpensive solution which seems to have addressed the problem head on and which has since stood the test of time during much listening by at least two listeners with good ears, a musician and a piano tuner, using a wide variety of material.

1. The signal to the treble panel passes through a 35uF capacitor followed by the step-up transformer. The 35uF N.P. electrolytic was changed to a Solen polypropylene 40uF (this was the closest value available). This proved very worthwhile indeed, increasing clarity and leading to a substantially improved sense of focus in the treble.

2. The bass circuit consists of an air-cored inductor connected in series, followed by and a 270uF electrolytic capacitor in series with a small resistor connected to ground. The 270uF capacitor was removed and replaced with the 35uF capacitor which had previously been removed from the treble section (above), the small resistor (IIRC 1.25ohms) was replaced by a piece of wire. This change was to be preliminary with subsequent fine-tuning expected to be necessary, however after subsequent listening no further changes to the value of the capacitor are planned.

3. The final change was to replace the 12Vac power supplies (which measured almost 14Vac) with 7.5Vac (these measure just over 8Vac). In fact, an inexpensive unit was found which offers AC voltages that are switchable in roughly 1.5V steps, thus providing useful adjustment of tonal balance between bass unit and panel via contol of the diaphragms polarising voltage.

Tim.
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Old 29th January 2005, 04:06 PM   #7
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Default Correction

Correction, the original capacitor value was 220uF, not 270uF.

Tim.
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Old 29th January 2005, 06:38 PM   #8
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Default Tim

Hi TimA,

I would change the 10R resistor into a LCR (in parallel with the transformer prim. and if you have a DALE resistor of 10w or more 2.2 ohms put this in series with the input of the transformer.

Unless you have a huge (current)amp!

Cheers,


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Old 10th February 2005, 08:14 PM   #9
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I have also Finals 0.3, which are given to me satisfaction and disatisfaction.
From the begining they seams to me they have a cruel midrange sound. I changed the bass taiwanese drivers with Seas L17 REP aluminium 6.5" driver, and the sound becomes more precise in the upper low spectrum, and with some good deep frequency. Satisfaction in the field.
But the midrange remains unpleasant ( female vocals, violin, trumpet).
Now i will try to reduce bach pannel radiation with 1/2" dense felt mounted behind the diafragm.
Is anyone who reach results in leaning crispy midrange?
Must I modify some caps and resistors in the crossover?
Waiting advice.
Petre
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Old 10th February 2005, 09:33 PM   #10
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Petre,

If you are saying that there is too much upper midrange/treble and not enough upper bass, but good low bass - in other words...'thin' - I suggest you carry out the modifications that I outlined earlier in this thread.

Incidentally, we also tried a 'better' bass drive unit but we eventually switched back to the original Taiwanese unit, finding it actually very good when the other problems had been fixed.


Tim.
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