Esl 63 what type of coil for the delay line? - diyAudio
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Old 20th November 2004, 11:45 AM   #1
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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Default Esl 63 what type of coil for the delay line?

Im thinking about building a pear of ESl 63
I already found the schematic, but each time i find the schematic de coil values are missing.

Does anybody know what type of coils these are?

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Hilbren
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Old 20th November 2004, 02:02 PM   #2
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I don't know if I have that info...

There was a schematic published in the Loudspeaker & Something Handbook, a British author... (John Woram??)

You can likely discover the values by figuring out the required delay and calculating the time constant... to my eye they look
fairly large value air coil type... they may have an iron core there,
dunno. And, it may be set up as a single large "tapped" delay line,which is what I would expect to see.

Also there may be one or more articles that talk about the delay time...

Which I think you can calculate because the delay, iirc, is set to be equal to the speed of sound over the distance from the center to the edge of the diaphragm - perhaps with some minor empirical tweaking to get the speed of the transverse wave through the mylar dialed in...

It's supposed to approximate a spherical source.

_-_-bear

Quite frankly I don't think I'd try to build one unless ur going to do
something way bigger or different - its easier and cheaper just to buy a pair if ur interested in that sort of design...
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Old 20th November 2004, 06:00 PM   #3
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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I've got the stepup trafo's and i've got mylar....
i want to build something like this one http://esl.hifi.nl/project04.htm
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Old 21st November 2004, 08:46 PM   #4
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Sure, nice project.

Done by an advanced builder, with a Quad delay line to start with.

My suggestion is to start by building the easiest and simplest ESL you can manage and make sure you can get it to work first. Then move up in complexity and size...

This project is quite complex and requires the 100% perfect implementation of a great number of precise and critical tasks and constructions.

_-_-bear
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Old 22nd November 2004, 07:46 AM   #5
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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ow I forgot to tell, I already build some esl's:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.c.van.doorn/...ctrostatic.htm
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Old 22nd November 2004, 08:11 AM   #6
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IIRC
The delay lines for the ESL 63 were described in Elektor magazinr about the time the speakers were originally released.
Also memory seems a bit hazy but i think each concentric ring on the stators were each individually (signal) delayed to approximate the spherical source and the coils feeding each ring were made from very (hair) thin wire but the length of wire in each was extraordinary , (thousands of metres???) to approximate acoustic delay through air eg"
1mS through air at 330m/s = 0.33m
how long would a piece of wire be to impart 1mS delay???

approx 300km ?
Delays required between each ring was however a lot less than this so wire length was also a lot shorter..


I could be wrong though..

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Old 22nd November 2004, 08:32 AM   #7
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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I already did a little research, but the delay line is based on the fact that a LC circuit has a 90° phase shift on the resonance frequency.

So If you take a LC circuit with a resonance frequency 11khz you will get a delay (phase shift) of 22,7 uSec and that is ~8mm @11khz

And if the frequency gets higher de phase shift will get 180°

All lower frequencies don’t have any delay and leave the circuit without any phase shifting…
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Old 22nd November 2004, 08:35 AM   #8
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and furthermore

from Stereophile mag review http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...16/index6.html

"The second innovation was the speaker's unique radiating element, which used driver plates that employed a printed circuit board of annular rings, like the ripples formed when a stone is dropped into a lake. These rings were fed by delay lines (employing some 11 miles of wire!) which allowed the flat diaphragm to radiate the sound first at the center and last at the periphery, as if it were a radiating sphere—the ideal shape for approximating sound emanating from a point source with an apparent location 12" behind the panels. "

Can you post schematic???

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Old 22nd November 2004, 08:44 AM   #9
hilbren is offline hilbren  Netherlands
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11miles=17.71Km
speed of electriciti is 299 792 458 m / s http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=...gle+zoeken&lr=

that is (17,71km)/(299 792 km/sec)
that is 56,7uSec wich is not enough for the complete delayline
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Old 22nd November 2004, 09:02 AM   #10
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a quick calc tells me approx 87mm delay distance (acoustic) required for stator ring approx 600mm diam. max (for example )
what wire length gives electrical delay equal to 87mm for a sound wave???

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