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Old 4th May 2015, 11:39 AM   #1
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Default New Thread: ER Audio Mini Panels

Come on, guys, we need to have our own thread on these panels!

They're not expensive, they have their own bias supply, crossover
and ER Audio claims they do down to 200Hz.

Aren't you curious to know what they'd sound like crossed with your favorite midwoofers and subs below that?

ER Audio says that you can also order the panels alone to connect them in arrays for greater dispersion, and save on power supplies in the process.

Mini Panels


ER Audio mini panels

Last edited by oltos; 4th May 2015 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Added Text
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Old 4th May 2015, 03:53 PM   #2
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Definitely.

I'm really tempted to order 2 or 4 of them to replace my Acoustat front panels, unfortunately the price went up by 25% recently (but they're still not that expensive). I would of course like to XO them as low as possible, definitely below 300 Hz. Rob at ER Audio wrote that they are working on measurements that will be published on the web site soon.

So, any opinions/info about the mini panels would be appreciated
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Old 4th May 2015, 08:58 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

A dipole of that size has no hope of getting anywhere near 200Hz.

The dispersion claims are completely inconsistent.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 5th May 2015, 01:17 AM   #4
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The very First ESL's that I built were that size back in 2003.

They will produce 200hz with a large enough D/S but not anything earthshaking on a small power amplifier.

IMHO, Way way over priced for a panel that size and cost no more than about $20 a pair to DIY.

I can get 95db to 100db FLAT down to 50Hz to 100hz using my 9.75" x 3.25" and a sealed 5 1/4" woofer on about a pair of 50-80 watt amps setup in a bi-amped configuration.
I have shown the FR chart and pictures many many times already in many recent threads.

Just one of these panels with my 8" sub is enough to fill a 11'x 18' room your causing you to yell in order to carry on a conversation and enough lows to make it sound full and punchy without breaking a sweat!

It is not hard to build something like that.

I have been contemplating recently on starting a new build thread this summer on how to produce the set that I made back in 2003 since I burned up my best pair two years ago, in the name of science and seeing how far I could take them even with the few flaws they did have.

They worked perfectly for 9 years until I decided to push them past there limits!! He,he,he,he

I have already made a TIG rod segmented design that i have yet to put a diaphragm on and test it.
This design was fully documented at ESLDIY but they lost all of the very detailed pictures I had there.

Anyhow, I want to make a new one using the original window screen method I had used when I started making these things so I can still use my original diaphragm frames, I just need to make some new stator panels.

Also in the works is a PCB model made out of some stator's that DIY'er WrineX was kind enough to send me that are the exact same size and then compare them all to each other.

I know I have been behind the times of getting anything done as it is just a hobby for me and I have been focused lately on learning C and programming PIC chip MCU's.
It is not good to have HV flying around when my bench is loaded with IC's.

A parallel chipamp is in the works to in order to handle to low impedance's, and, a 4Kv P-P direct drive amp is in the plans for the small desktop systems as well, I just got the FET's for that last year.

So my plate is full but with lots of stuff to do, but as usual I am always happy to provide my knowledge and experience with such systems when I can for those who are already on it!!

Cheers!!!

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 5th May 2015 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 5th May 2015, 03:31 AM   #5
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

A dipole of that size has no hope of getting anywhere near 200Hz.

The dispersion claims are completely inconsistent.

rgds, sreten.
I don't doubt it, yet everyone raves about Rob's full range Acorns, so I wouldn't think he's the deceptive sort.

In any case, would you cross them with this driver
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/down...ec%20Sheet.pdf

Gary Dahl, crosses them with his Azurahorn/Radian driver, where the 416s begin at 700Hz. His 3 cu ft sealed boxes cut off their low end at 70Hx, below which his subs take over. Bi-amping too?
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Old 5th May 2015, 05:35 AM   #6
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldfryjr View Post
The very First ESL's that I built were that size back in 2003. They will produce 200hz with a large enough D/S but not anything earthshaking on a small power amplifier
That's fine, since my room is small, and I may be bi-amping anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldfryjr View Post
IMHO, Way way over priced for a panel that size and cost no more than about $20 a pair to DIY.
$20? Including the transformers and the rest of circuitry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldfryjr View Post
It is not hard to build something like that.jer
WADR, it may hard or too entailed for many of us to build. Indeed, the biggest problem DIYing with ESLs is that there's practically zero pre-made HF or HF/MF ESL drivers available off the shelf for purchase anywhere in the world; good performing ones, anyway.

It's very upsetting that there's no one in the USA who makes anything but ultra expensive full range stats. That's the problem as I see it. So if noobs like me want to buy off the shelf HF/MF ES drivers, the ER Audio Mini Panels is the only game in town. And again, they're made by the same guy who makes the very well respected Acorns-probably the most affordable full range ESLs anywhere.

Last edited by oltos; 5th May 2015 at 05:41 AM. Reason: Added Text
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
A dipole of that size has no hope of getting anywhere near 200Hz.
According to which formula? Using the equation from the SPL of ESL thread you can get about 93 dB @ 1 m @ 200 Hz using one mini panel, and about 99 dB using two stacked panels. Using Linkwitz dipole SPL calculator I get about the same SPL with a Xmax of 0.5 mm (don't know how accurate that is with an air gap of 1 mm). For a small room I think that's enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
The dispersion claims are completely inconsistent.
In what way are they inconsistent? The panel has three vertical segments where the center segment is 30 mm wide, and the outer segments about 43 mm wide (the conductive part). The active height is 487 mm.
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldfryjr View Post
It is not hard to build something like that.
It's hard for someone who don't have the tools and experience.

The diaphragm stretching, stator coating etc. seems complicated for me. And I would prefer a segmented design which would make the perforated panels even harder to build. Maybe wire stators would be feasable, but still a lot of work (and they don't look as good).
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oltos View Post
In any case, would you cross them with this driver
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/down...ec%20Sheet.pdf

Gary Dahl, crosses them with his Azurahorn/Radian driver, where the 416s begin at 700Hz. His 3 cu ft sealed boxes cut off their low end at 70Hx, below which his subs take over. Bi-amping too?
If you're gonna use subs I would definitely go with OB woofers between 80-300 Hz. I use U-baffle woofer towers with four 7" drivers per tower. They mate very well with the ESL panels, are usable down to about 40 Hz and look great.

To use OB woofers without subs you need to move a lot of air to get low freq. Something like Dayton Audio UM15-22 in a U- or H-baffle might work decently below 30 Hz. But then you also need an amp with a lot of power (class D preferably).
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Old 5th May 2015, 11:27 AM   #10
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phazer99 View Post
If you're gonna use subs I would definitely go with OB woofers between 80-300 Hz. I use U-baffle woofer towers with four 7" drivers per tower. They mate very well with the ESL panels, are usable down to about 40 Hz and look great.

To use OB woofers without subs you need to move a lot of air to get low freq. Something like Dayton Audio UM15-22 in a U- or H-baffle might work decently below 30 Hz. But then you also need an amp with a lot of power (class D preferably).
I quite don't understand. Even if the mini panels can go down to 200Hz, why not make it "easier" on them and cross them with something like the Altec 416 midwoofers at around 500Hz (the Altec 416s can actually do up to 1kHz without becoming directional)?

Is the RC crossover that comes with the mini panels what you would use between them and the Altecs?

Another thing: The 416s have 98db sensitivity. If I don't bi-amp the system, how would I match the levels between the the panels and the 416s?

Gary Dahl's sealed boxes limit the 416's low end to 70Hz.
So what do you think of a pair of Brian Ding's Rythmik sealed servo subs
Rythmik Audio • Servo subwoofer products ?
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