ESL and Dipole hybrid system. - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th January 2004, 09:21 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Lightbulb ESL and Dipole hybrid system.

Hi all,
I just made a very rough experiment, I don't know if there is a system like this before.
I like the sound from ESL system, but it's beyond my budget, so maybe I can DIY it, but again, it seems not easy to build and the transformer price is high too.
Then I remember the dipole system is very similar with ESL, both is open baffle system, so why not use ordinary driver to drive diaphragm and the experiment began:
I use 6" driver that I used with open baffle system but with 40x60cm baffle it rolled off too early (started from 200Hz), it's because small size baffle and small size cone area.
I made 40x60cm diaphragm frame and then I streched out very thin plastic wrap as a membrane on it, behind this membrane I glued 35x55cm 1" thick solid styrofoam panel ( it's very rigid but lightweight).
The styroform can move back and forth around 6mm, it is close to xmax of the driver.
Next step was fixed out Diaphragm frame with the driver, so it became one part, then using some spacer (styroform block) I fixed out styroform panel to the driver's cone, that's all!
Hearing result, the first thing I notice, there is more bass came out, more balance sound not just mid and high only, remember I used the same baffle size as dipole system.
Because it is very rough experiment, it needs expert to do more test with a good equipment.

Chris.
Attached Images
File Type: gif hybrid.gif (10.1 KB, 606 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2004, 09:26 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Hybrid fourdoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Haha little misleading title, but yes this sounds like a great experiment.

I have often thought of doing something like this. Except maybe like a line of drivers that all drive a single membrane. This way you get super surface area, plus only one emitting surface.

A fun, yet cheap experiment!
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2004, 10:57 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
ashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 3RS
Default Interesting.

This is an interesting experiment.
The performance might be poorer in HF than the normal driver.
Since the radiating surface has mass , it might not be able to move fast enough as the frequencies go up. In addition coupling of the flat panel to the cone could also eat up some of the HF.
Do you get as much HF as you do with the normal cone?
It might also sound smoother than the cone as it could roll off any cone break up effects of the original cone. For LF it probably still behaves just like a normal speaker with more mass. So the resonance will go down and Qts will probably go up. So you could get slightly deeper or more bass.

If you want to make something that is closer to an ESL ( a planar speaker !) , you should check the forum for flat speakers. I saw something long ago. It was a small speaker ( 3 or 4 inches) facing upwards and covered on top with a round plate with a small hole in it. This hole opened out into the space between two films of PVC held apart by two vertical posts. The top end was closed. So the cone movement caused air to pump in and out through the hole into the space between the two films and caused them to vibrate ( outward) like a BIPOLE driver. Sound was considered to be good . Apparently it has lots of limitations and so is not commercially seen . The picture showed a device used as a computer speaker with decent sound.
It might do what you want it to. You could agument the bass with an external driver.
Have fun !
__________________
AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2004, 11:52 AM   #4
BTW is offline BTW
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Singapore
That's a very cool speaker you came out with In the late '80's there was a Sumo Aria speaker which later became the Meitner speaker. It had a magnetic structure just like a normal driver but instead of a cone it used a large sheet of stretched Mylar. Sound was quite good actually but there were some resonances which they tried to control by gluing some felt strips on the mylar membrane. Your idea of using the styrofoam is a good one do keep us updated on how it sounds and btw is there any change in the loudness/efficiency of the speaker?
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2004, 10:55 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Hi all,
thank's for positive comment.

Hybrid,
any better name for it?
Multi driver setup, I though of that too, however I wonder using multi driver will cause non uniform movement of the membrane, because each driver movement not 100% similar, or we can tolerate it because the different is too small?

Ashok,
I didn't hear HF lost, because maybe I use mid driver not fullrange.
The benefit is I hear more bass for the same baffle size than dipole system, with dipole system I need around 80X120cm size of the baffle for the same bass output.

BTW,
yes, I lost a fraction of efficiency compare with box system, but with dipole system it's almost the same volume.

Guys, I can't give more than just subjective hearing report, but what I like with this setup is: it's dipole system with all the good thing of it but with smaller baffle size I get more bass!
It's beyond my capability about the theory and formulas behind this setup, it will be a great help if somebody can explain the +/- of it and make a deep measurement, so we all can learn more.

thankyou,

Chris.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2004, 12:29 PM   #6
BTW is offline BTW
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Singapore
I managed to get the Museatex website the Melior speakers are of this similiar design . The manual :

http://www.museatex.com/mel1man.htm#use

Catalogue:

http://www.museatex.com/planar1.htm
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2004, 11:12 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Hi BTW,
Thank's for the link, although it's rather different, they use point source system to drive the membrane.
How's the sound of that speaker? do you own it?

Chris.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2004, 01:02 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland


Regards

Charles
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mswcut.jpg (20.8 KB, 448 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2004, 01:17 PM   #9
BTW is offline BTW
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Singapore
Quote:
Originally posted by christophorus
Hi BTW,
Thank's for the link, although it's rather different, they use point source system to drive the membrane.
How's the sound of that speaker? do you own it?

Chris.
Hi Chris,

A friend of mine who used to run a audio shop, brought in the Meitner spk and I spent a lot of time listening to them. I'm actually very impressed with this speaker very natural sounding indeed. Too bad it never received the commercial success it should have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2004, 04:40 PM   #10
VictorG is offline VictorG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Default Uhhhh.......

i guess i want to ask why you have choosen to do this in this manner....

One of the big reasons ESLs sound good, and one of the reasons people buy them is becuase thier diaphram is weightless enabiling it more agility then a normal cone speaker....

Why on earth would you then use a cone speaker to drive a membrane to get the ESL sound? The membrane will now only sound as good as the driver.

Its like: I can't afford to fix my awsome Jag XKE engine, but instead of paying the money to fix it, I'll through a ford taurus engine in the trunk and have it push the drivetrain.

Save up the money, buy the transformers.

Brian
__________________
Stewie: You there, fetch me the wall street journal. You two! Fight to the death!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hybrid Dipole Steve Cresswell Multi-Way 13 2nd November 2008 09:22 PM
20 Hz to 20 kHz Dipole Speaker System MJK Full Range 69 29th September 2008 01:37 PM
newbie needs help with dipole woofer hybrid esl CharlieM Planars & Exotics 4 26th February 2008 10:03 PM
Does hybrid dipole bass move diaphragm? APi Planars & Exotics 14 3rd February 2005 04:11 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:48 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2