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Old 6th January 2014, 11:06 PM   #1
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Default How To Hook Up Electrostatic Panel

1) where can I buy generic cheap, step up transformers?

2) what do I hook the three wires up to? red, blue and black from the electrostatic panel?

3) can I put a passive crossover between the amplifier and the panel? in other words, remove the bass from the signal (below 200Hz) immediately after the amp before it ever goes to the step up transformer?

4) what else should I know about before trying to hook them up to my amp?

5) which website has more technical information on these questions...such as what is the required voltage that the output from the amp must be stepped up to?

I have a pair of panels from Martin Logan Electrostatic speakers (only the electrostatic panels). I'm missing the woofer, the crossover, and the step up transformer.

kind thanks,
Eddie

Last edited by Eddiegnz1; 6th January 2014 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 6th January 2014, 11:28 PM   #2
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Read through some of the more recent threads discussing ESL's and transformers and you will find lots of links and info in these threads that will help for you to start having a better understanding of their operation and requirements.

Typically we have been using a 2 or 4 of any good 6V/240 (or 2 X 120V) power toroid transformers such as the AN series from Antek.

Expect to keep your crossover frequency above about 300Hz to 360Hz with these transformers.
An active crossover is the best way to go.

What kind of amp do you have ?

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 6th January 2014 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 6th January 2014, 11:35 PM   #3
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I have a tube amp that is the Dynaco VTA ST-120, 60 watts per channel, which sounds more like 100 watts per channel but it's trully only 60 per channel. Here's the amp

tubes4hifi amplifier KITs page

that amp will drive only the panels. I have a separate amp for the woofers. and the woofers will be in separate cabinets. So this is strictly just a panel issue.

There is a confusing sentence in the Martin Logan manual that makes it seem like the voltage in the speaker is either 3,000 volts or 30,000 volts? is it safe to guess that it's more like 3,000 volts or is it possible that it should be 30,000 volts?

Below is some information from Martin Logan website on these panels;

Power supply employs a toroidal transformer , discrete voltage and self-tracking current regulation.
40-volt peak to peak swing allows for 30dB of dynamic headroom.
AC power requirement is less than 2.5 Watts.


kind thanks,
Eddie

Last edited by Eddiegnz1; 6th January 2014 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 6th January 2014, 11:55 PM   #4
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Yes, the bias voltage should be about 3Kv I don't know how far you can push them but I assume that you could go as high as the 5-6Kv range.

You can try using the ole' Dynaco but a good solid state amp that can handle down to 2 Ohms would be better.
You can find some that aren't to costly if you search around.

The bias supply power is nil to what is required to properly drive them.

I DIY my own so I don't have any experience with ML's panels but they are basically the samething.

jer
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Old 7th January 2014, 12:00 AM   #5
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thank you Geraldfryjr, Can you tell me what each of those three wires should get hooked up to? Red, Blue and Black wires?
below are pictures of the panels.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nv9yjbe0vhiliqv/LUADZ34MN1

kind thanks,
Eddie
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Old 7th January 2014, 12:16 AM   #6
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Hmmm....I don't know the color codes to the ML's but there may be that info in one of these threads.
Two members here that may know them is TYU and Bolserst just to name a few of them off of the top of my head as well as many others.

If you can tell which ones are connected to the stators then it is quite simple really.

jer
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Old 7th January 2014, 02:55 AM   #7
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the red is to the front stator and the blue is to the rear stator and the black is to the diaphragm.

Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page: The Electronics Package

1) Can I use the set up that is in the above link?

2) If I want to have a passive high pass crossover for these panels, can I simply hook up the passive crossover between the amp and the above contraption? What I have in mind for the crossover is simply a capacitor in series and a coil in series.

kind thanks,
Eddie
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Old 7th January 2014, 04:46 AM   #8
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Yes, you can use that page.

All you need to use is the capacitor.
It won't be exact but it will serve its purpose.
You may have to experiment with different values.

You really need to use at least a second order filter (12db slope) with an ESL.

I will look more into this if you choose to use the Antek transformers.
Active would be better as just adding a capacitor may or may not cause some distortions.

This has been an issue with a fellow DIYer wrineX but we have not figured out why he is getting distortions with the capacitor and a clean sound without it.

But once you get everything setup you can give it a try and see how it goes.

A good cheap and decent active crossover like the Berhniger CX2310 can be had for about $99,

Behringer: SUPER-X PRO CX2310

It takes a lot of measuring and now how with a complete understanding of the ESL system to properly design a passive crossover for it.

By the time it is all said and done you will more invested in it than you would have by building an actively bi-amped system.

jer
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Old 7th January 2014, 04:56 PM   #9
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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All the logan run the bias at 3.4kV.........if you go much higher thay well buzz....
you got the wire right...front blu...back back an red is the mylar bias feed.....what panels do you have the 9"....12".....16"...wide??...i would wash the panels frist.....go here for info.........have fun

Martin Logan Shower Cleaning PDF
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Old 7th January 2014, 05:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiegnz1 View Post
the red is to the front stator and the blue is to the rear stator and the black is to the diaphragm.

Jazzman's DIY Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page: The Electronics Package

1) Can I use the set up that is in the above link?

2) If I want to have a passive high pass crossover for these panels, can I simply hook up the passive crossover between the amp and the above contraption? What I have in mind for the crossover is simply a capacitor in series and a coil in series.

kind thanks,
Eddie
Hi Eddie,
Being that you will be using well-insulated ML panels rather than DIY panels, you can use the simple/cheap bias supply shown on the Jazzman's ESL page and add another stage to it (by adding two additional diodes & two additional capacitors). This will up the voltage a bit to increase the panel output.

Good luck with your project
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